That is currently Russia’s overarching goal with other places, according to American intelligence. The goal is to thrust enough distrust in the voting system to destroy democracy as we know it. There needs to be a full, complete, hard line in the stand here from all Americans, if we’re going to survive this.
Couldn’t agree more. It’s basic region destabilization, which we’ve used extensively in sabre rattling abroad, just disappointed it’s working so effectively here.
We all know the US does bad things. We can say it. That’s not in question.
What is frustrating is when tankies deny obvious facts like this, and think that “but but America” somehow means that totalitarian dictatorships are justified in the shit they do.
Good luck with life dude. Hope you find happiness in a way that doesn’t harm others.
If America collapses, that would be good. Yes, Russia is trying to make it happen. No, Russia is not good. Yes, it’s still good that Russia is trying to destroy America.
People should not have trust in the American “democracy”. Just because Russia is trying to foment this distrust does not make it ontologically invalid.
Do you have… any idea just how destructive a power vacuum would be created if the United States collapsed?
Like, I get it, America does a lot of bad shit, but you have to consider what its absence would do to the rest of the world. There are more than a few nations that would commit atrocities untold to attain the position of the World’s Sole Superpower.
Not to mention all the ways this cat can get skinned, and the different implications that each end could have:
Does it collapse via internal insurgency? Get ready to have an incredibly unstable North America for a while.
Unprecedented economic recession? It’ll bring down a lot of other western countries with it.
Military coup d’etat? Now you likely have a warhungry autocrat in charge of the most, if not one of the most, powerful militaries to ever exist.
Dissolution via constitutional convention? I can only imagine how that national divorce would go.
Maybe a second Confederacy forms? Be ready for American Civil War II: Nuclear Boogaloo.
Like, I get it, America does a lot of bad shit, but you have to consider what its absence would do to the rest of the world. There are more than a few nations that would commit atrocities untold to attain the position of the World’s Sole Superpower.
Even from a Liberal point of view, the absence of the U.S. would finally allow international bodies - the UN, INTERPOL, the ICC, etc. - to do their jobs and collectively enforce norms in a multipolar world. America does not stop countries from committing atrocities. We can see that in Palestine, Burma, Costa Rica, and the Donbass today. America facilitates atrocities and protects their perpetrators from repercussions.
“If America wasn’t doing it, someone else would” is not a valid argument. It’s the same as a landlord saying “Someone has to landlord, and if it wasn’t me, it’d be someone worse”. It’s lesser-evilism.
Not to mention all the ways this cat can get skinned, and the different implications that each end could have
Various Communist parties have gone through this logical process before. We do not want a violent revolution; reactionaries force this path by continuing to support unjust systems. Ironically, if every person (like you) who thinks “The Communists have some good ideas but I don’t believe in using violence to achieve them” gave the Communists their full support and was willing to use violence to achieve them, the violence would not be necessary. It is the same quandry as the vast majority of Democrats hating Biden and preferring a progressive or Socialist but voting for him anyways because they’ve convinced themselves that he is, somehow, the “stable, electable” candidate. If everyone who was sick of the two-party system just woke up tomorrow and stopped voting for them, we would live in a better world; but when only 10% of people vote for third parties etc., they’re just “spoilers”.
Holy shit I can’t believe the liberals and their fucking Hilary 2016 talking points are still here. Not everything is Russia, in fact most things are not Russia. when people on the internet call you a fucking idiot, for your brain dead takes it’s not Russians doing that.
Also “america” shouldn’t “survive” this at all. America is trash, and american democracy isn’t worth saving.
I mean, it’s China’s too - as well as Saudi Arabia, and others. But Russia seems to be the most effective at it. Hell, for that matter, US intelligence does it abroad too. All first-world nations probably participate in this kind of destabilization tactic to some degree.
Why do you think the Great Firewall of China exists? Same reason – we were filling their heads with anti-communist propaganda and that’s the only way China deemed was possible to keep us out.
I’m actually more worried about Israeli influence in the US government which is well documented, and well funded, and pays huge dividends but no one ever brings them up for some reason.
Meanwhile I’m far more worried about individual private interests like banks and military weapons manufacturers and oil interests controlling US and every other countries interests that is even more well documented and even more detrimental to our countries and the world at large, and can be more easily fixed than complex foreign affairs, but that seems to always be the last thing anybody brings up with these things.
But they’re all issues and playing “my issue is more important than yours” isn’t helpful for any leftist agenda man.
That is a separate issue with capitalism but would be a non-sequitur in the case. When liberals bring up Russia, but ignore Israel who actually do the things they accuse Russia of, it is correct to point out the contradiction.
Of course Capitalism is a problem, but that isn’t what the person I was responding to was defending.
When liberals bring up Russia, but ignore Israel who actually do the things they accuse Russia of, it is correct to point out the contradiction.
You realize that Israel is basically an intelligence arm of the US, operating within range of russia and the middle east right? MOST of our intelligence tools come from Israel. THAT is why nobody is pointing it out, because they’re operating under our umbrella.
That’s even worse. You get that if Israel is actually an arm of the US operating clandestinely and without oversight of the American people that isn’t compatible with democracy right?
Well it’s certainly not Russians downvoting you through the basement. Its “people on the internet calling you a fucking idiot for your brain dead takes”
That is currently Russia’s overarching goal with other places, according to American intelligence. The goal is to thrust enough distrust in the voting system to destroy democracy as we know it. There needs to be a full, complete, hard line in the stand here from all Americans, if we’re going to survive this.
Couldn’t agree more. It’s basic region destabilization, which we’ve used extensively in sabre rattling abroad, just disappointed it’s working so effectively here.
People are people. People in the US are not special compared to anyone else. Just as susceptible.
What does Russia have to do with anything?
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Only when the evidence says so ?
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Does Russia fund groups to spread misinformation online?
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Whataboutism, for 100 please.
We all know the US does bad things. We can say it. That’s not in question.
What is frustrating is when tankies deny obvious facts like this, and think that “but but America” somehow means that totalitarian dictatorships are justified in the shit they do.
Good luck with life dude. Hope you find happiness in a way that doesn’t harm others.
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Fashies in liberal coats of paint say what?
Okaaaayyy
Average lemmy.world take
If America collapses, that would be good. Yes, Russia is trying to make it happen. No, Russia is not good. Yes, it’s still good that Russia is trying to destroy America.
People should not have trust in the American “democracy”. Just because Russia is trying to foment this distrust does not make it ontologically invalid.
Average lemmygrad.ml user
Yes
It’s probably an average take because it’s close to being the most correct.
Do you have… any idea just how destructive a power vacuum would be created if the United States collapsed?
Like, I get it, America does a lot of bad shit, but you have to consider what its absence would do to the rest of the world. There are more than a few nations that would commit atrocities untold to attain the position of the World’s Sole Superpower.
Not to mention all the ways this cat can get skinned, and the different implications that each end could have:
Even from a Liberal point of view, the absence of the U.S. would finally allow international bodies - the UN, INTERPOL, the ICC, etc. - to do their jobs and collectively enforce norms in a multipolar world. America does not stop countries from committing atrocities. We can see that in Palestine, Burma, Costa Rica, and the Donbass today. America facilitates atrocities and protects their perpetrators from repercussions.
“If America wasn’t doing it, someone else would” is not a valid argument. It’s the same as a landlord saying “Someone has to landlord, and if it wasn’t me, it’d be someone worse”. It’s lesser-evilism.
Various Communist parties have gone through this logical process before. We do not want a violent revolution; reactionaries force this path by continuing to support unjust systems. Ironically, if every person (like you) who thinks “The Communists have some good ideas but I don’t believe in using violence to achieve them” gave the Communists their full support and was willing to use violence to achieve them, the violence would not be necessary. It is the same quandry as the vast majority of Democrats hating Biden and preferring a progressive or Socialist but voting for him anyways because they’ve convinced themselves that he is, somehow, the “stable, electable” candidate. If everyone who was sick of the two-party system just woke up tomorrow and stopped voting for them, we would live in a better world; but when only 10% of people vote for third parties etc., they’re just “spoilers”.
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Holy shit I can’t believe the liberals and their fucking Hilary 2016 talking points are still here. Not everything is Russia, in fact most things are not Russia. when people on the internet call you a fucking idiot, for your brain dead takes it’s not Russians doing that.
Also “america” shouldn’t “survive” this at all. America is trash, and american democracy isn’t worth saving.
I mean, it’s China’s too - as well as Saudi Arabia, and others. But Russia seems to be the most effective at it. Hell, for that matter, US intelligence does it abroad too. All first-world nations probably participate in this kind of destabilization tactic to some degree.
Why do you think the Great Firewall of China exists? Same reason – we were filling their heads with anti-communist propaganda and that’s the only way China deemed was possible to keep us out.
Hell, a large batch of our Republican politicians visited Russia on independence day 2018: https://americanindependent.com/republicans-congress-celebrated-fourth-of-july-russia/
So yeah, they seem to be the ones courting our politicians the most now, and it seemed relevant to discuss.
I’m actually more worried about Israeli influence in the US government which is well documented, and well funded, and pays huge dividends but no one ever brings them up for some reason.
Meanwhile I’m far more worried about individual private interests like banks and military weapons manufacturers and oil interests controlling US and every other countries interests that is even more well documented and even more detrimental to our countries and the world at large, and can be more easily fixed than complex foreign affairs, but that seems to always be the last thing anybody brings up with these things.
But they’re all issues and playing “my issue is more important than yours” isn’t helpful for any leftist agenda man.
That is a separate issue with capitalism but would be a non-sequitur in the case. When liberals bring up Russia, but ignore Israel who actually do the things they accuse Russia of, it is correct to point out the contradiction.
Of course Capitalism is a problem, but that isn’t what the person I was responding to was defending.
You realize that Israel is basically an intelligence arm of the US, operating within range of russia and the middle east right? MOST of our intelligence tools come from Israel. THAT is why nobody is pointing it out, because they’re operating under our umbrella.
That’s even worse. You get that if Israel is actually an arm of the US operating clandestinely and without oversight of the American people that isn’t compatible with democracy right?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=61lBYHHCJrg
Well it’s certainly not Russians downvoting you through the basement. Its “people on the internet calling you a fucking idiot for your brain dead takes”
You’d have to be an idiot to think it’s not Russia when they tried to overturn an election to help a Russian asset.
“Russian Asset” jesus fuckign christ.
“We get all the money we need from the russians” Don Jr
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