• Cowbee [he/him]@lemmy.ml
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    18 days ago

    Leftism is to go against the current class order, Liberalism supports it. Leftism isn’t an arbitrary vibe, if you’re pro-Capitalism then you aren’t against Capitalism!

    • GrammarPolice@lemmy.world
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      18 days ago

      Leftism isn’t to go against capitalism though. Leftism broadly refers to the ideology that supports socioeconomic equality. If I’m to remind you of the origin of the terms “left” and “right” as it relates to politics, the terms right and left refer to political affiliations originating early in the French Revolutionary era. “The Left” implied support for republicanism - becoming a republic, and not American republicanism, secularism and civil liberties.

      Political scientists and other analysts usually regard the left as including anarchists, communists, socialists, democratic socialists, social democrats, left-libertarians, progressives, and social liberals. Movements for racial equality, as well as trade unionism, have also been associated with the left. Source

      The sort of leftism you Marxist-Leninists advocate for is radical leftism. Social liberalism is still leftist.

      • Cowbee [he/him]@lemmy.ml
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        18 days ago

        Leftism broadly refers to the ideology that supports socioeconomic equality

        Then by your own definition Liberalism is right wing! This is ridiculous.

        • bad_news@lemmy.billiam.net
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          18 days ago

          Neoliberalism IS right wing! The contemporary “Liberal” is pro-war, anti-worker, and thinks leftism is a Foucauldian atomization of the workers by identity, a strategy that was literally seeded by the CIA as an anticommunist strategy (how do you think Foucault became universal in Western university curricula?) If you do not have class solidarity, you are not “left” period.

        • GrammarPolice@lemmy.world
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          18 days ago

          You think communism is the only way to advocate for socioeconomic equality?

          Edit: This is a dumb question of course you do. Read the source on political scientists agreeing that social liberalism is leftist. Go ahead and disagree if you want

          • Cowbee [he/him]@lemmy.ml
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            18 days ago

            Nope, but advocating for “socioeconomic equality” by advocating for Capitalism, a system based on private accumulation and inequality, is hilariously wrong.

              • swim@slrpnk.net
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                18 days ago

                Friend, take the straight point as it’s delivered: capitalism is a system of oppression, and “liberals” support capitalism.

                Leftists call those saying “this system of oppression would be perfect, with only some changes” liberals.

                • GrammarPolice@lemmy.world
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                  18 days ago

                  I understand the point you’re trying to relay; however, I’m going to have to disagree.

                  You’re basically saying that the only way to bring about systemic change is through Marxism, and I can’t agree with that. From another comment i posted:

                  There are other things like support for social justice and human rights, anti-imperialism and internationalism, desire for systemic change, secularism, opposition to traditional hierarchies, etc. Are you then going to tell me that these characteristics i have outlined are right wing? Or that they are only achievable by being Marxist or Anarchist?

                  • swim@slrpnk.net
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                    18 days ago

                    I don’t think you understand, because you came out of left field to restate my point as “the only way to bring about systemic change is through Marxism.”

                    Wtf? Where did I say anything related to Marxism, let alone use the word?

                    I will reply to your quote:

                    There are other things like support for social justice and human rights, anti-imperialism and internationalism, desire for systemic change, secularism, opposition to traditional hierarchies, etc. Are you then going to tell me that these characteristics i have outlined are right wing? Or that they are only achievable by being Marxist or Anarchist?

                    No! Those things are only achievable through anticapitalism! Marxism and anarchism are examples of anticapitalist thought.

                    “Opposition to traditional hierarchies,” “desire for systemic change,” “anti-imperialism,” and “social justice” are hollow, offensive, and nonsensical when ignoring capitalism.

                    I’m not a Marxist, and you can call yourself whatever you like, but if you haven’t attained class consciousness enough to recognize that capitalism is a death cult, you’re a fucking liberal.

              • Cowbee [he/him]@lemmy.ml
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                18 days ago

                Please explain how advocacy for Capitalism is adbocacy for Socioeconomic equality. Please. I’m a Marxist, you’re darn right, but I acknowledge that there are other left positions like Anarchism and Syndicalism. Liberalism is right-wing.

                • GrammarPolice@lemmy.world
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                  18 days ago

                  Bro what!! Liberalism is literally considered a left wing ideology by political scientists. It doesn’t matter what you think. You didn’t create this stuff.

                  Social democrats and social liberals are all left wing because these groups advocate for more government intervention which right wingers vehemently oppose. Do you think that the political spectrum only involves markets?

                  • Cowbee [he/him]@lemmy.ml
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                    18 days ago

                    Government intervention isn’t what separates left and right. The Nazis were far-right but had lots of government intervention. According to yourself, left and right is about socioeconomic equality. This includes Syndicalism, Anarchism, and Socialism/Communism, all with varying degrees of government.

                    Explain how Capitalism is Left Wing.