• swim@slrpnk.net
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      8
      ·
      18 days ago

      Friend, take the straight point as it’s delivered: capitalism is a system of oppression, and “liberals” support capitalism.

      Leftists call those saying “this system of oppression would be perfect, with only some changes” liberals.

      • GrammarPolice@lemmy.world
        link
        fedilink
        arrow-up
        3
        arrow-down
        8
        ·
        edit-2
        18 days ago

        I understand the point you’re trying to relay; however, I’m going to have to disagree.

        You’re basically saying that the only way to bring about systemic change is through Marxism, and I can’t agree with that. From another comment i posted:

        There are other things like support for social justice and human rights, anti-imperialism and internationalism, desire for systemic change, secularism, opposition to traditional hierarchies, etc. Are you then going to tell me that these characteristics i have outlined are right wing? Or that they are only achievable by being Marxist or Anarchist?

        • swim@slrpnk.net
          link
          fedilink
          arrow-up
          6
          ·
          18 days ago

          I don’t think you understand, because you came out of left field to restate my point as “the only way to bring about systemic change is through Marxism.”

          Wtf? Where did I say anything related to Marxism, let alone use the word?

          I will reply to your quote:

          There are other things like support for social justice and human rights, anti-imperialism and internationalism, desire for systemic change, secularism, opposition to traditional hierarchies, etc. Are you then going to tell me that these characteristics i have outlined are right wing? Or that they are only achievable by being Marxist or Anarchist?

          No! Those things are only achievable through anticapitalism! Marxism and anarchism are examples of anticapitalist thought.

          “Opposition to traditional hierarchies,” “desire for systemic change,” “anti-imperialism,” and “social justice” are hollow, offensive, and nonsensical when ignoring capitalism.

          I’m not a Marxist, and you can call yourself whatever you like, but if you haven’t attained class consciousness enough to recognize that capitalism is a death cult, you’re a fucking liberal.

    • Cowbee [he/him]@lemmy.ml
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      7
      arrow-down
      2
      ·
      18 days ago

      Please explain how advocacy for Capitalism is adbocacy for Socioeconomic equality. Please. I’m a Marxist, you’re darn right, but I acknowledge that there are other left positions like Anarchism and Syndicalism. Liberalism is right-wing.

      • GrammarPolice@lemmy.world
        link
        fedilink
        arrow-up
        2
        arrow-down
        8
        ·
        18 days ago

        Bro what!! Liberalism is literally considered a left wing ideology by political scientists. It doesn’t matter what you think. You didn’t create this stuff.

        Social democrats and social liberals are all left wing because these groups advocate for more government intervention which right wingers vehemently oppose. Do you think that the political spectrum only involves markets?

        • Cowbee [he/him]@lemmy.ml
          link
          fedilink
          arrow-up
          7
          arrow-down
          3
          ·
          18 days ago

          Government intervention isn’t what separates left and right. The Nazis were far-right but had lots of government intervention. According to yourself, left and right is about socioeconomic equality. This includes Syndicalism, Anarchism, and Socialism/Communism, all with varying degrees of government.

          Explain how Capitalism is Left Wing.

          • GrammarPolice@lemmy.world
            link
            fedilink
            arrow-up
            2
            arrow-down
            8
            ·
            18 days ago

            Of course, that’s not the only thing lmao. You’re being intentionally obtuse. Nazis deliberately put power into the hands of the government as an oppressive tactic. Not to protect the working class.

            Also, i said left wing broadly speaking involves socioeconomic equality. There are other things like support for social justice and human rights, anti-imperialism and internationalism, desire for systemic change, secularism, opposition to traditional hierarchies, etc. Are you then going to tell me that these characteristics i have outlined are right wing? Or that they are only achievable by being Marxist or Anarchist?

            You and every other Marxist in here is a radical leftist. Why can’t you accept that fact?

            • Cowbee [he/him]@lemmy.ml
              link
              fedilink
              arrow-up
              7
              arrow-down
              3
              ·
              18 days ago

              There are other things like support for social justice and human rights, anti-imperialism and internationalism, desire for systemic change, secularism, opposition to traditional hierarchies, etc

              Social Justice and Human Rights are just generally good things, grouping them in with left and right just obscures your actual political stances.

              Anti-Imperialism must be socialist in nature, at scale. There can be national liberatory movements from Capitalists against international Capitalists, yes, but anti-imperialism cannot be liberal within the Imperial Core.

              Secularism isn’t really political, and desire for systemic change is vague enough to not be a point.

              Opposition to traditional hierarchies cannot be found within Capitalism.

              There you go, answered.