I mean, when the dictator is in-office that’s not usually what they do after they line up the dissidents. Those folks should feel lucky they just got the preview.
I’m sure I’ll catch heat from this but I try and avoid instances that don’t block threads. I know it’s generally futile but, to me, it shows where the admin’s priorities are and that’s somewhat important to me as well. I imagine a leopards might popup here or elsewhere one day.
It takes two to tango. Moderates steamrolled the primaries and got a geriatric establishment candidate elected knowing full well progressives and leftists would have a problem with it. Moderates backed Biden while he shredded the BBB. They backed Biden when he reverted on his campaign promise for $50k in student loan forgiveness. They backed Biden when he increased the defense budget. They backed Biden when he blocked the rail strike. They backed Biden when he told federal workers to return to the office. They backed Biden as he tasked Powell and Yellen with going to war with American workers. And they continue to back Biden as he continues sending weapons to Israel.
You could possibly make a case that both moderates and the farther left movements are to blame. But the fact is moderates are the majority and thus they hold the majority of the responsibility. Plus it’s a bit absurd that moderates accuse farther left movements as being unwilling to compromise when the compromises made by the moderates have been immaterial.
the idea that we’ll potentially lose democracy altogether
Would you rather lose Democracy or use the reconciliation bill as a bargaining chip to get the BBB passed?
Would you rather lose Democracy or follow through on the promise of $50k student loan forgiveness?
Would you rather lose Democracy or reduce the defense budget?
Would you rather lose Democracy or stay out of the rail strike?
Would you rather lose Democracy or allow federal workers to continue working remotely?
Would you rather lose Democracy or stop sending weapons to Israel?
When the former is chosen time, and time, and time, and time again the question has to be asked. Is Democracy all that important to you? Because all of these choices sound like a bargain to me.
I think you are casually forgetting all the times that the Biden administration tried to pass good stuff and it was blocked by the GOP ‘just because’ or SCOTUS because they are captured by the Sith.
No. Everything I listed was a choice Biden made and had nothing to do with Republicans. Take a breath, drop your proconceptions and read my comment again.
The thing I don’t understand here is just - do you expect Trump to go pass BBB, forgive student loans etc? In the primaries, sure, go out and vote for more progressive candidates. But if I’m asked if I want a tooth filling or a root canal, I don’t bitch about the filling material and hope to go get a root canal.
Like, practically, what do you expect to get better if Biden loses?
Is Democracy important to you? Then encourage moderates, establishment Democrats, the DNC and Biden to compromise with the leftists and progressives in order to get the votes he needs to win the next election. If you’re not willing to do that then accept the consequences.
Biden isn’t the one saying he wants to be dictator, that seems to be Trump. As far as I am aware, we needed to run a different candidate in the primary, that’s where you push people to come more to the left. Going hard right because Biden wasn’t left enough for you is kind of insane to me. That’s all.
Do I love what the Biden admin does 100%? No.
But you seem to be saying you’re rather have Trump than Biden, which is a position someone can take, but a very strange one for someone who’s left of Biden. To me it’s like saying It’s 70 degrees in here and I’m cold. One person says I will set the thermostat to 72 degrees, the other says I’ll set it to 60 degrees, and you would like it to be 75 degrees. Because the 72 degrees isn’t hot enough, you’d prefer the 60 degrees. Weird way to express your preferences to me.
I don’t think I understand your questions to be honest. I’d strongly prefer to keep democracy, and to reverse the course of our system so it’s getting more democratic. I’d prefer not trying to make the point being cruel to outgroups or anyone.
Specifically I would never make the case that we’d lose democracy from trying to do any of the things you listed as “or”. The “Might lose democracy” is about Trump’s actual statements about wanting to be a dictator, and the republican party that seems to be all for that.
The first 3 questions are to congress or maybe the supreme court - Biden tried to do loan forgiveness, it wouldn’t pass congress, and the supreme court struck down his ability to do it in an executive order. This is not something that Biden can change, it’s something that needs more people to vote in democratic congressional representatives. So these questions seem completely irrelevant to me in terms of the presidential election. I’m in NY, we vote in democratic senators and a lot of democratic representatives. I’m not sure what else you’re asking me to do.
The last 3 questions are more salient to Biden, and I personally would not have done any of that. I don’t know how the government can actually block a strike if the people were really serious they could all quit and let the companies deal with that.
If I was president knowing only what I currently know now - I’d have told the companies to fricken pay up, not say the strike can’t happen. I’d channel that FDR meme where he hauled the one company away from the person not coming to an agreement so stuff kept running.
I would tout federal workers working remotely as both something good for labor, and good for the environment with less car pollution, and potential for a broader recruiting base. If I was feeling snarky I might also try and throw in it might let the government recruit more people from low cost of living areas and save money.
On the Israel issue I’d probably throw it to congress at this point. I just don’t really know what the stance to take is because I don’t know enough about our alliance terms, the strategic goals, etc.
I have to point out - theres presumably a lot the President / Government knows that I do not about each issue. There may be things that if I knew it, I’d change my position. One thing I think Biden needs to do is get on TV or whatever and explain to people why he’s sending arms to Israel at this point, and why he’s not strongly pressuring Israel to get out of Gaza and stop this war.
Given the above - I’m not really sure what compromise you’re talking about that I’m “not willing to make”? I didn’t choose Biden - no one else was running in the primaries that I’m aware of. It’s not that people didn’t hear that no one was excited about Biden running again, it’s that whoever makes the political decisions didn’t choose anyone else even hearing that. And TBH, politically, other than maybe John Stewart (as I’ve said elsewhere, and who they obviously didn’t get), I don’t know anyone who’s even as well known as Biden on the Democratic side that also would have any chance in a general election. The swing voters who decide elections seem to be very resistant to anyone who’s not an old white man. I wish we didn’t have the electoral college that even makes swing states TBH, but it’s what we have to go by. Pretending that it’s not is not engaging with reality.
It’s not just moderate Dems, ANYONE that thinks not voting in protest (voting third party is slightly different but almost as bad in our current system) in the us general election is sending a message has a misunderstanding of the mechanisms of our elections especially those whose ideals are not mainstream. Participation is essential for a healthy democracy, and not participating is forfeiting one’s ideals and influence. It should be obvious that political campaigns aren’t likely to cater towards ideas that nobody visibly supports and risk alienating groups that reliably turn out to vote. None of this is any one person’s fault, but leftist refusing to vote only serves to shift the representation that much further right each election and spite the effort of other voters on the left, especially so if those withholding votes didn’t participate in primaries and vital local elections. It’s also very important to realise that this is very slow and can take decades.
In essence, each election skipped, no matter how small, is like your friends getting pizza for the party, and when they ask what you want, you say something like “It doesn’t matter to me, anything is fine.” But then when those friends come back with a pizza you really don’t like such as pineapple pizza, which most of the friend group asked for then it’s hard to blame them. And it’s certainly not helpful to get mad and announce that because you don’t like it you aren’t going to tell them what you want next time either. You will only ever get what you want by pure chance this way and it’s very unlikely to happen if your favourite pizza happens to be anchovie or barbeque chicken.
The Americans that participated chose Biden and trump
And it turns out a lot of them want or are okay with fascism if they realise it or not, and have propelled trump.
Biden has to consider those reliable voters on the right that are alienated by this if he wants to be re-elected
Do the leftist come out to push back and fight against the influence of the right simply by voting? Or do they do nothing and let things get worse because the rest of the people that put the effort in and participated in democracy didn’t choose what they wanted. I hope you can see that it really is the fellow progressives that this mindset hurts the most.
Uh excuse me what the fuck. This is some culty two minutes hate not-ok behavior.
They weren’t having them line up specifically to boo at them. At a caucus, you line up in groups depending on who you’re supporting.
Yeah and the yelling and cajoling is generally part of the process. It’s often a raucous affair.
Yep. People forget some of the 2016 and 2020 DNC primary caucuses didn’t go much better.
I mean, when the dictator is in-office that’s not usually what they do after they line up the dissidents. Those folks should feel lucky they just got the preview.
Its pretty hilarious to be honest. Real Leopards eating faces moment.
That might be the only thing I miss from reddit
There is c/[email protected] but the moderator locked and abandoned it about a month ago. I would guess Admin will eventually do something about that.
I’m sure I’ll catch heat from this but I try and avoid instances that don’t block threads. I know it’s generally futile but, to me, it shows where the admin’s priorities are and that’s somewhat important to me as well. I imagine a leopards might popup here or elsewhere one day.
I’m starting to think Trump’s base are a bunch of bloodthirsty fascists or something.
EDIT: OK no I thought of an even better one. Turns out the only politicians who get booed more than Trump are his rivals.
Hey so the right also has their own struggle sessions
And yet also not in the slightest bit surprising.
Really more of a stockade at that point
I mean you say this but moderate Democrats can’t handle progressives and leftists saying they’re voting 3rd party.
EDIT: lol
So… the idea that we’ll potentially lose democracy altogether if they split the Democratic Party vote isn’t really a big deal?
It takes two to tango. Moderates steamrolled the primaries and got a geriatric establishment candidate elected knowing full well progressives and leftists would have a problem with it. Moderates backed Biden while he shredded the BBB. They backed Biden when he reverted on his campaign promise for $50k in student loan forgiveness. They backed Biden when he increased the defense budget. They backed Biden when he blocked the rail strike. They backed Biden when he told federal workers to return to the office. They backed Biden as he tasked Powell and Yellen with going to war with American workers. And they continue to back Biden as he continues sending weapons to Israel.
You could possibly make a case that both moderates and the farther left movements are to blame. But the fact is moderates are the majority and thus they hold the majority of the responsibility. Plus it’s a bit absurd that moderates accuse farther left movements as being unwilling to compromise when the compromises made by the moderates have been immaterial.
Would you rather lose Democracy or use the reconciliation bill as a bargaining chip to get the BBB passed?
Would you rather lose Democracy or follow through on the promise of $50k student loan forgiveness?
Would you rather lose Democracy or reduce the defense budget?
Would you rather lose Democracy or stay out of the rail strike?
Would you rather lose Democracy or allow federal workers to continue working remotely?
Would you rather lose Democracy or stop sending weapons to Israel?
When the former is chosen time, and time, and time, and time again the question has to be asked. Is Democracy all that important to you? Because all of these choices sound like a bargain to me.
I think you are casually forgetting all the times that the Biden administration tried to pass good stuff and it was blocked by the GOP ‘just because’ or SCOTUS because they are captured by the Sith.
No. Everything I listed was a choice Biden made and had nothing to do with Republicans. Take a breath, drop your proconceptions and read my comment again.
The thing I don’t understand here is just - do you expect Trump to go pass BBB, forgive student loans etc? In the primaries, sure, go out and vote for more progressive candidates. But if I’m asked if I want a tooth filling or a root canal, I don’t bitch about the filling material and hope to go get a root canal.
Like, practically, what do you expect to get better if Biden loses?
You just sailed right over all my questions.
Is Democracy important to you? Then encourage moderates, establishment Democrats, the DNC and Biden to compromise with the leftists and progressives in order to get the votes he needs to win the next election. If you’re not willing to do that then accept the consequences.
Biden isn’t the one saying he wants to be dictator, that seems to be Trump. As far as I am aware, we needed to run a different candidate in the primary, that’s where you push people to come more to the left. Going hard right because Biden wasn’t left enough for you is kind of insane to me. That’s all.
Do I love what the Biden admin does 100%? No.
But you seem to be saying you’re rather have Trump than Biden, which is a position someone can take, but a very strange one for someone who’s left of Biden. To me it’s like saying It’s 70 degrees in here and I’m cold. One person says I will set the thermostat to 72 degrees, the other says I’ll set it to 60 degrees, and you would like it to be 75 degrees. Because the 72 degrees isn’t hot enough, you’d prefer the 60 degrees. Weird way to express your preferences to me.
you seem to be saying you’re rather have Trump than compromise with leftists and progressives.
That accusation cuts both ways.
And you still haven’t answered any of my questions.
I don’t think I understand your questions to be honest. I’d strongly prefer to keep democracy, and to reverse the course of our system so it’s getting more democratic. I’d prefer not trying to make the point being cruel to outgroups or anyone.
Specifically I would never make the case that we’d lose democracy from trying to do any of the things you listed as “or”. The “Might lose democracy” is about Trump’s actual statements about wanting to be a dictator, and the republican party that seems to be all for that.
The first 3 questions are to congress or maybe the supreme court - Biden tried to do loan forgiveness, it wouldn’t pass congress, and the supreme court struck down his ability to do it in an executive order. This is not something that Biden can change, it’s something that needs more people to vote in democratic congressional representatives. So these questions seem completely irrelevant to me in terms of the presidential election. I’m in NY, we vote in democratic senators and a lot of democratic representatives. I’m not sure what else you’re asking me to do.
The last 3 questions are more salient to Biden, and I personally would not have done any of that. I don’t know how the government can actually block a strike if the people were really serious they could all quit and let the companies deal with that.
If I was president knowing only what I currently know now - I’d have told the companies to fricken pay up, not say the strike can’t happen. I’d channel that FDR meme where he hauled the one company away from the person not coming to an agreement so stuff kept running.
I would tout federal workers working remotely as both something good for labor, and good for the environment with less car pollution, and potential for a broader recruiting base. If I was feeling snarky I might also try and throw in it might let the government recruit more people from low cost of living areas and save money.
On the Israel issue I’d probably throw it to congress at this point. I just don’t really know what the stance to take is because I don’t know enough about our alliance terms, the strategic goals, etc.
I have to point out - theres presumably a lot the President / Government knows that I do not about each issue. There may be things that if I knew it, I’d change my position. One thing I think Biden needs to do is get on TV or whatever and explain to people why he’s sending arms to Israel at this point, and why he’s not strongly pressuring Israel to get out of Gaza and stop this war.
Given the above - I’m not really sure what compromise you’re talking about that I’m “not willing to make”? I didn’t choose Biden - no one else was running in the primaries that I’m aware of. It’s not that people didn’t hear that no one was excited about Biden running again, it’s that whoever makes the political decisions didn’t choose anyone else even hearing that. And TBH, politically, other than maybe John Stewart (as I’ve said elsewhere, and who they obviously didn’t get), I don’t know anyone who’s even as well known as Biden on the Democratic side that also would have any chance in a general election. The swing voters who decide elections seem to be very resistant to anyone who’s not an old white man. I wish we didn’t have the electoral college that even makes swing states TBH, but it’s what we have to go by. Pretending that it’s not is not engaging with reality.
Calm, level-headed truth. You are the hero of the internet today for me. Start a substack and I will subscribe. Thanks
It’s not just moderate Dems, ANYONE that thinks not voting in protest (voting third party is slightly different but almost as bad in our current system) in the us general election is sending a message has a misunderstanding of the mechanisms of our elections especially those whose ideals are not mainstream. Participation is essential for a healthy democracy, and not participating is forfeiting one’s ideals and influence. It should be obvious that political campaigns aren’t likely to cater towards ideas that nobody visibly supports and risk alienating groups that reliably turn out to vote. None of this is any one person’s fault, but leftist refusing to vote only serves to shift the representation that much further right each election and spite the effort of other voters on the left, especially so if those withholding votes didn’t participate in primaries and vital local elections. It’s also very important to realise that this is very slow and can take decades.
In essence, each election skipped, no matter how small, is like your friends getting pizza for the party, and when they ask what you want, you say something like “It doesn’t matter to me, anything is fine.” But then when those friends come back with a pizza you really don’t like such as pineapple pizza, which most of the friend group asked for then it’s hard to blame them. And it’s certainly not helpful to get mad and announce that because you don’t like it you aren’t going to tell them what you want next time either. You will only ever get what you want by pure chance this way and it’s very unlikely to happen if your favourite pizza happens to be anchovie or barbeque chicken.
The Americans that participated chose Biden and trump And it turns out a lot of them want or are okay with fascism if they realise it or not, and have propelled trump. Biden has to consider those reliable voters on the right that are alienated by this if he wants to be re-elected
Do the leftist come out to push back and fight against the influence of the right simply by voting? Or do they do nothing and let things get worse because the rest of the people that put the effort in and participated in democracy didn’t choose what they wanted. I hope you can see that it really is the fellow progressives that this mindset hurts the most.
You tell me. If Biden managed to get elected without those votes in the 2020 general then why is he or anyone worried about 2024?
Extremist ideologues on all sides are a problem that will be handled. The only question is will they end the world before that happens.
Are you including all those people insisting on affordable housing, healthcare, education and food as “extremist ideologues”?
warra comeback!