Damn. People here sure love purity testing. The guy could pay for their cancer treatment and still slap him every chance because they got it wrong publicly in the past but once you get it wrong publicly once, you’re out of the club. Go be a conservative we don’t want you. When someone at Tuta has a bad year and ends up in the wrong publicly, find another email service to try and convince people to go too. Probably worse in functionality than Tuta as you go down to smaller and worse funded efforts in this niche field of Internet activism
But people here do it here too to Mozilla because they don’t like their social outreach programs and their attempts to get advertising revenue so screw Mozilla too. So because nothing but perfection is acceptable, push away people that may be adjacent/left leaning right and switch to less developed products. Switch from Firefox and attack Mozilla who do the bulk of Firefox development and use Waterfox who do a custom deployment/build. Pure display of perfection being the enemy of good here.
You want people to embrace privacy but keep whiplashing people around when the org/anyone in leadership says something wrong. Screw Signal, they’re not perfect. Screw Matrix/Element, some developer said something one day so it’s all bad. I’m surprised anyone here uses any privacy software or a major open source software like Linux or Krita or Blender at the risk that someone in the background may be wrong in someway which I am 100% certain they exist in important positions. Same with Lemmy
Go back to the 60s and you all would be shitting on Fred Hampton for accepting the impure and the color coalition for everyone that had ever said something wrong. Al Franken definitely would not make it with y’all. Y’all can’t build up leftist communities because y’all are bitter assholes that can’t move on and spend so much time purity testing. Y’all are probably mediocre too so can’t make a difference in privacy and data ownership activism anyways so should be lining up to support not just Tuta, someone hasn’t screwed up publicly yet, and Proton
Reminds me of Aung San Suu Kyi. She was under the gun of the military ruling class that permitted limited democratic government and because she didn’t make speech as if she lived in the US, a bunch of Americans turned on her and celebrated when the military dictatorship came back to rule and put her in prison the moment it seemed like the civilian government would actually assert more power
I am sad because of all the people in this thread who think the CEO is “fascist-sympathetic” because he said Trump did something better than the Democrats one time.
Absolutely agreed. I think when you have such role in a company you should avoid making political statements at all, because no matter what you say you will end up upsetting some people. In this case, “try-hard” democrats.
But I already use proton and purchased outside the Apple Store (on the proton website) and use it on my iPhone? What changed?
Just use KSuite instead
tuta and mullvad
Is tuta torrent friendly?
Based, as they say.
Proton = Trump support
So no for me.
Their CEO approved of an appointment Trump made, and criticized Dem on the issue – doesn’t make him a Trump supporter. If we can’t tell the Dems off when we think the GOP does better, how can we proceed?
Proton itself never directly commited on anything from Trump in a positive way.
Their current CEO Andy Yen posted this Tweet. Yes he is an idiot and even doubled down on it with the Proton account Now I am not from a country with a 2 party system, but last time I checked agreeing with one statement from somebody doesn’t mean you support them. Heck finding common ground is often a way to find compromises.
Do what you want and don’t support them if you don’t want them, but don’t act like the company Proton is a Trump supporter. Heck there are a lot of articles on the Proton site which are pro privacy and pro consumer.
Andy Yen went out of his way to criticize Democrats on antitrust, which is how you can tell it’s actually a pro-Trump position unsupported by the actual facts.
I like Gail Slater. She’s possibly the best choice among people who Trump likes, to head DOJ’s Antitrust Division. She has bipartisan bona fides.
But to say that Democrats, after 4 years of Lina Khan leading the FTC, and a bunch of the reforms that the Biden FTC and DOJ made to merger standards and their willingness to sue/seek big penalties for antitrust violations, aren’t more serious than Republicans about reining in big tech consolidation and about stronger enforcement of antitrust principles, completely flips around the history and is a bad faith argument.
Andy Yen could’ve praised Gail Slater, and that would be that. Instead, he took a post by Trump that didn’t even mention Democrats, and made it about how the Democrats are bad on taking on big tech. That’s the problem everyone had with it.
Well yeah he did support a Trump statement and went out of his way to do it. Later stupidly doubled down on it by using the official response.
But, and this might be because I am not American and live in a country where politics aren’t so black and white, but I fail to see how that means you are a MAGA nut/Trump supporter or what not. Especially not because he hasn’t taken action (will be hard to do anyway since he is not American).
And there is a strong governance structure with Andy Yen only having 33% power on final says since he is 1 of 3 people in the Proton Foundation which is the shareholder of the Proton company.
Yeah, my 2 year plan is up in June. I haven’t decided what I’m switching to. I’ve heard good things about Mullvad’s privacy policies and politics, but I’ve also seen reviews that a bunch of sites and services have them blocked.
I’m open to suggestions at this point.
Mullvad is the gold standard
That’s what I’ve been seeing. I don’t use Netflix anyways and I mostly just have a VPN for when I’m on a university or hospital campus and I’d like to keep my internet usage private. (Or when sailing the high seas for books.)
Except that Mullvad is hostile to the torrent infrastructure since there is no port forwarding. No thanks!
I’d use their VPN even if Hitler owns it. It’s private, secure and they stand to their values with respect to that. Why would I care about political views? Politics don’t change the service on a technical level. Literally don’t give a shit.
Except politics, actually, can change the service. For example, surrendering data in secret. Or installing backdoors.
Not that I think Proton is gonna do that (or at least hope so), but thinking “why would I care about politics, they don’t affect the app on a technical level” is incredibly naive and potentially incorrect.
With an over-the-top example, it’s kinda like saying “why should I care about the politics of my landlord after they support the “Increase Tenant’s Rent” party, it doesn’t change the service”
Fuuuuck.
This article goes into it some more, please pick your own opinion: https://medium.com/@ovenplayer/does-proton-really-support-trump-a-deeper-analysis-and-surprising-findings-aed4fee4305e
This article keeps getting posted but it really just shows the author doesn’t understand the issue that was presented. It goes as far as brushing of the criticism almost immediately. Truth is Proton decided they would publicly praise a running fascist leader for goodboy points
Proton didn’t decide anything, Andy Yen posted ONE tweet and then doubled down on it with the Proton Reddit account which was deleted.
I know the US is really into this “us vs them” or Republicans against the Democrats or whatever you want to and that is fair, that’s how US policies sadly work which is also one of the reasons why the country is basically corrupt. For most people agreeing with one statement a politician made doesn’t mean anything. I can agree with some things Geert Wilders said, but that doesn’t mean Ill vote for him.
There are other articles about the whole situation, but I believe that the Tweet says more than the bullshit some people have been shouting on every post regarding Proton. Share the Tweet yes, but don’t share the bullshit.
Proton didn’t decide anything, Andy Yen posted ONE tweet and then doubled down on it with the Proton Reddit account which was deleted.
How are you going to say that Proton didn’t say anything and then acknowledge that the official Proton social media accounts were making statements like this:
Until corporate Dems are thrown out, the reality is that Republicans remain more likely to tackle Big Tech abuses
That’s the context you keep brushing under the rug. The official Proton position is not just that Trump made a good choice, on this one thing, it’s that you should vote for Republicans over Democrats.
Yes, it was official corporate Proton position to delete that comment. But it was the official Proton position to make that comment in the first place.
I don’t brush anything under the rug. I actively shared the Tweet that started this hole BS.
Well fair, maybe I should have shown their response. They doubled down on it, but they also deleted it. Both of the American parties are a shitshow, but then again America is just corrupt anyway. Trump didn’t even have 50% of the votes.
Saying “Proton = Maga” or whatever doesn’t shed light on the issue either. In the end I believe more in actions than words (and i have faith in a decent governance structure) and I believe that people should take their own conclusion on the matter based on the Tweet and well yeah I should start linking the Reddit post again.
The moment Proton itself starts to fuck things over I am out of there as well, but currently I prepaid just before this came to light, but I use my own domain so mhe
I don’t brush anything under the rug. I actively shared the Tweet that started this hole BS.
I get that. But my point is that you can’t claim that Proton’s CEO is acting independently of the Proton corporation itself when Proton’s official corporate accounts chimed in on his side on this.
Both of the American parties are a shitshow
Not on antitrust. The Biden administration was one of the strongest advocates for consumers on antitrust issues we’ve seen since Robert Bork convinced Reagan to tear it all down.
Anyone who says otherwise is trying to lie to the American public about it, and should be called out for actively advocating for false MAGA propaganda. Andy Yen did it, and Proton agreed with it.
“Proton didn’t decide anything” He is the God damned CEO of the company.
Proton is not responsible for everything Andy Yen does, Andy Yen has to take responsibility for everything Proton does.
But his power is limited anyway since there is a governance structure by using the non profit that is shareholder of Proton. This is not America.
Never said I was American. Proton as a team has kept him on so that’s their answer. He did not have to make a post at all complementing Donald but he did and that fact says A LOT.
Thanks for sharing this!
It really does appear that the “Proton is MAGA” thing is just quote taken out of context nonsense.
Yeah no problem, everybody is allowed to make their own decisions, but I feel like everybody should at least see the actual Tweet.
Edit: apparantly people don’t want the truth to be shared? Share the dang Tweet people.
Inb4 Trump invents tariffs on foreign coded software
You mean tariffs on services and the EU been floating the idea of putting tariff on US big tech
So, Mr. Yen, are you still sympathetic to the republicans, who have a disdain for the same courts that gave you a win?
Or is your head burried so deep in your particle accelerator you don’t even have any clue about politics?
Dude thinks he knows everything because he has a PhD in Physics, literally out of touch with the politics that anyone doing 5 minutes of web searching can understand.
Dude thinks he knows everything because he has a PhD in Physics, literally out of touch with the politics that anyone doing 5 minutes of web searching can understand.
This is such a common thing. STEM education needs to be more well rounded.
Why? Idiots thinking they know more than they do won’t be stopped by this. Also if we wanted to round humanities and liberal arts by making it mandatory to pass analysis, linear algebra, organic chemistry and classical physics would just lead to much more people not graduating anything.
School is for a general education. Academia is for specialization.
What does politics even have to do with a ruling like this? Isn’t the law separated from the government in the US? Or is the US just a corrupt country that allow people to influence the judges ruling to impact the lawsuit in a certain outcome … O wait …
no no, you see Trump is totally anti-big tech. once he bleeds them dry from all the bribes they’ll be gone! /s
“Up to”…… here’s 5% off
Very true. I’m giving you up to* 1000 upvotes.
Yen also pointed out how such a court decision could help cut inflation in the US, too, “by dropping the price of a significant chunk of digital purchases by 30% overnight”.
I bet most companies will just take that extra 30% as profit rather than giving it back to their users like proton has.
could help cut inflation in the US
I highly doubt Apple App Store revenues are a significant portion of the CPI.
I mean, let’s not kid ourselves that it has no effect, but it’s not even in the basket
Yeah, Proton is bucking the obvious trend, with this one. Most companies will totally take the profits rather than lowering prices.
Yeah, even of the companies don’t pocket the difference, he’s an idiot to suggest that this will cut inflation.
This guy is just not very smart, I think.
I think he’s a salesperson trying to sell the idea that getting rid of the apple tax is good for consumers.
getting rid of the apple tax is good for consumers.
I mean that’s not wrong. I had no idea Apple was double-dipping like this. I wonder if Google is doing the same thing…
Every store does this. Even Holy Valve
They literally do not lol
In game purchases in steam games don’t have to pay Valve, nor does Valve prevent you from uploading your game to other stores, which is what this ruling was about.
What? Since when does Valve prohibit companies from redirecting customers to non-Valve purchasing flows? Because that’s what this ruling is about, it says Apple can’t prohibit apps from telling users to go buy off-platform for lower prices. Valve isn’t doing that with Steam afaik, actually I’m not aware of any other platform that does this
Valve will even allow developers to create their own Steam keys free of charge and sell them wherever they want with no commission whatsoever
That’s pretty open I’d say
Any of the video game console companies.
Every company who takes a cut from in-app purchases, be it subscriptions or DLC, should be kneecapped by this ruling.
It’s one thing for the hosting marketplace (App Store, Steam, Play Store, etc) to take a cut from the initial purchase of a game/app. But it’s a whole other issue for that initial marketplace to keep reaching further into the dev’s pockets and take a cut from in-app purchases unrelated to where it was originally obtained.
That just turns paid apps into splash screens for in-app purchases though. That way apple never gets a cut because the “purchase” is in-app. Pay to be listed (maybe tiered depending on downloads) seems fair especially because it doesn’t incentivize people to do scammy things with pricing. It’s already a fee anyway.
That just turns paid apps into splash screens for in-app purchases though
Welcome to Android lol
I’m not entirely optimistic about this ruling, but we’ll see.
Apple had no reason NOT to give refunds and then use their weight to claw it back from the app developer.
But what happens when not-too-legit apps use non-AppStore external sites to unlock features in an app?
In a perfect world it’s cheap and easy and reliable.
But it can also be a scammy shop that lures you into expensive subscriptions with no easy way to cancel them (eg. gym membership) and what happens when Little Timmy spends $9000 for Nlartbux in a mobile game’s external store?
Could go either way 🤷🏻♂️
I’m not entirely optimistic about this ruling, but we’ll see.
Apple had no reason NOT to give refunds and then use their weight to claw it back from the app developer.
Greed.
But what happens when not-too-legit apps use non-AppStore external sites to unlock features in an app?
I suppose we will see what happens. That’s a very slippery slope though, full of FUD, and is the same logic that Apple, Microsoft, and others try to use to keep users locked into their walled gardens.
In a perfect world it’s cheap and easy and reliable.
But it can also be a scammy shop that lures you into expensive subscriptions with no easy way to cancel them (eg. gym membership) and what happens when Little Timmy spends $9000 for Nlartbux in a mobile game’s external store?
Could be. Multiple alternative markets exist for Android already though, and some shops are scammy as fuck. Google has already put protections in place to prevent sideloading potentially harmful apps (including alternative markets), but the savvy user who knows how to bypass those restrictions should* know how to spot scammy shit.
Could go either way 🤷🏻♂️
“For your security” was never about security.
what happens when Little Timmy spends $9000 for Nlartbux in a mobile game’s external store?
That’s why you don’t put your credit card info in a phone or tablet and let kids play with it.
Here comes the Steam defenders.
What do you mean “double dipping”? I don’t own any Apple products. I purchased through Proton’s website.
If someone purchases a Proton plan through their iOS app, Apple got a 30% cut of that. Which is stupid. Because Proton (and every other company with an iOS app) already pays Apple to simply have their app on Apple’s app store.
Proton…already pays Apple to simply have their app on Apple’s app store.
Uhhh I mean they pay a $100/year developer fee, which probably doesn’t even cover the infrastructure costs. Is that what you’re referring to?
I’m not arguing against you, Apple should consider those costs as a service to their (overpaying) customers. I’m just not sure what other costs you’re referring to.
Is that what you’re referring to?
Yes (I thought it was more, but w/e). I’ll admit, I don’t know a whole lot about development and everything that it entails, but nuance is key here. Say what you will about Proton, but this ruling just set a precedent that a company hosting an app/game download cannot take a cut from purchases completed within said app/game. That affects everyone.
I’m just looking at this from a bigger picture perspective. Apple has more than enough money already, and frankly there are far too many companies like this who need to be cut back down.
Or he’s just shitting on other companies who he knows are too greedy to do the same. Proton is getting positive press for this and he’s leaning into it with a bit of hyperbole
Not saying he’s a genius or anything, he’s just a spokesperson doing spokesperson things
How many years until prices go up? I bet they marked down 1-2 years where they realize they can’t up the prices. But after, it will creep up.
In a decade it’ll probably be the same price it was last year.
i’m scared how many ceos don’t understand that rapid fall of inflation or zero inflation is bad because it means your economy is stagnant.
That is a very broad generalization. First of all inflation is not just some co-product of economic activity. It has specific reasons. An economy is not stagnant because the oil price sinks after geopolitical tensions ease. An economy is not stagnant because businesses are kept from price gouging in cartels or monopoly situations.
Also “stagnant” is not inherently bad. The reason why we need economic growth is because the super rich are siphoning off more and more wealth, so economic growth is the only thing keeping poor people from revolting. A zero growth or even degrowth economy could serve the people very well, if wealth wouldn’t be hoarded away by select few.
Companies that were app-first like mobile games probably won’t cut prices much if any. Companies that were web-first like Proton and Patreon probably will.
Yep, product prices are not based on costs but rather just the absolute maximum of what consumers are willing to pay.
Proton just seems to be an exception.
In a sufficiently competitive market, the maximum is related to costs.
Proton is trying to get cheap marketing.
Do he still think fascism is good for small businesses though?
Why is it bad though? This business is in no form related to politics. It wouldn’t change fundamentally even if Hitler ran it.
I’m not going to willingly put my money towards someone who supports that kind of thing. The first response to my comment was a very level headed response and provided evidence that he does not directly support the administration.
Still doesn’t provide me a lot of consumer confidence though.
Please just shut the fuck up
I beg you
If only he ever said that you weren’t making up bullshit by misrepresenting his statement.
And article on the topic of what Andy Yen said: https://techissuestoday.com/proton-ceo-responds-to-backlash-after-his-post-supporting-trump-selection/
So, while his comment wasn’t entirely neutral I don’t see any endorsement of fascism in there.
I’d say you either openly oppose fascism or you condone it, there are no other possibilities
That’s fair I guess.
It sounds like that is the same as saying “you can’t oppose corporate monopolies without openly opposing fascism”
There is a lot of risk in that sort of intentional abdication of nuance, hopefully self-evident to you and to all who read this.
The difference is that he could have just not said anything, yet he chose to praise Republicans and denounce Democrats. Sure, there’s plenty of reasons to denounce Democrats, but putting that alongside praising Republicans is beyond tone-deaf.
This.
It was the same with Elon before he went head first into facism. They usually start by selling themselves as liberal with some occasional praise of conservatives. Then later claim they are moderate or the go to favorite of tech bros claiming they are libertarian, since saying they are conservative might receive backlash.
It’s always this exact article “on the topic” that gets posted in response. I remember his posts on social networks though.
So not really. Thanks for the actual answer.
https://x.com/andyyen/status/1864436449942110660
Seems pretty clear to me.
Are you kidding? Hating on Andy Yen for saying dumb shit he didn’t actually literally say is basically a Lemmy staple meme by now.
I’m not a Nazi, I just admire their personnel picks. And their economic policy. And their uniforms. And the killing of some jews. But I’m not a Nazi!
I’m so tired
Cool! Still not gonna put all my eggs in the fascist-sympathetic basket
It doesn’t matter either way. Never do it that anyway. You would think people would learn a thing after being thoroughly fucked by apple and google…
It is amazing how sundar and Tim literally violated you in sexually uncomfortable ways but you are crying about Andy being a pathetic regime whore…
I got a Proton two-year subscription that averages out to two dollars and change per month.
I already feel like I got an incredible deal.
Too bad the owner of Proton supports Trump, so when my two years subscription ends, I’m moving to Tuta or Posteo
Agreeing with a statement from a politician doesn’t mean you support that politician, that’s how compromises can even start.
But Any Yen isn’t in politics, let alone US politics, he is just an idiot.
This articles goes a bit more into it, but it is also an opinion. Don’t use Proton if you don’t want to idc: https://medium.com/@ovenplayer/does-proton-really-support-trump-a-deeper-analysis-and-surprising-findings-aed4fee4305e
I’m looking at mailbox.org when mine ends.
I moves to proton because I was paying for a vpn, storage, and password manager and it all came out to like ~$45/mo. Proton gives me all that for $30/mo. This was the 3rd password manager I had my family migrate to so I think I’m gonna stick with them for a bit unless I see some kind of evidence that proton is violating the security of its users for governments. I don’t want to have my family have to move to yet ANOTHER password manager
If they can charge 30% less without Apple’s fees, then why are their prices the same whether you buy on their iOS app or direct on their website? Why have they been overcharging users who don’t buy through the iOS app by 30% all this time?
Old knowledge disclaimer, but if they didn’t change it then:
Because Apple literally tells people that they’re not allowed to charge less somewhere else - at least that was the case several years ago…
Some things do charge different amounts though. YouTube Premium for example is more expensive if you subscribe in iOS but maybe that’s just because it’s Google.
They also could have just not let anyone subscribe through the iOS app. Lots of things do that.
I’ve noticed this too, there’s no consistency. Some companies seem to get away with two prices, others not.
When people tell you the laws are behind internet they’re taking about this all of this ND social media is unregulated but imagine if psychological abuse was the reason social media was successful.
This is the same on most platforms. You’ll rarely find a product for different prices in different places because if they’re listed on Amazon, Steam, Apple, Google, etc. they’re not allowed to.
That isn’t exactly true with Steam. Valve does allow a dev to offer a discount at a different store as long as that same discount comes to Steam in a reasonable amount of time.
Straight from the docs:“It’s OK to run a discount for Steam Keys on different stores at different times as long as you plan to give a comparable offer to Steam customers within a reasonable amount of time.”
That’s probably only for selling steam keys on another store. You might be able to sell non steam versions for any price you want
Yes but recent lawsuits have exposed that their policies and their enforcement aren’t aligned.
Got a link to an article or something discussing that?
I don’t even know how to find it again.
Because Apple prohibited that.
Likely they were not allowed to by the terms they agreed to with apple.
Most favored nation clause. Apple gets the lowest price that you offer. I’d you offer any discounts elsewhere, that have to be the same on the app store
It’s not exactly 30%. For sales below $1M, it’s 15%: https://developer.apple.com/app-store/small-business-program/
In Europe, where this was established last year, they started charging a Core Technology Fee to cover the cost of hosting and data transfer: https://developer.apple.com/support/core-technology-fee/
And if you switch payment providers, you have to pay at least 2.5% plus transaction and any intermediary fees.
It’s nice that Proton is offering a discount, but for everyone else there may be additional ongoing costs.
15% if you know about it, if you apply, if you get accepted
Good watch on this stuff, the recent court decision overall
Dude’s so vindicated. Apple lover who HATES their treatment of developers cases like this.
No doubt Proton’s CEO will use this to justify his “Trump is better for regulating big tech” claim, while ignoring the fact that the judge in this case is an Obama appointee.
Andy big mad they didn’t invite him to the Inauguration, he should sitting there next to sundar the creep!!!
And Faceberg and Bezonator
