The false notion that undocumented immigrants affect federal elections has a long history. But this year, due in part to rising migration at the U.S. southern border, the idea could have new potency.
The false notion that undocumented immigrants affect federal elections has a long history. But this year, due in part to rising migration at the U.S. southern border, the idea could have new potency.
Now you’ve moved the goal post. The question comment I answered was
Which I successfully answered.
If you want to continue the conversation to registrations then I would point you to states that automatically register people who participate in government actions like registering their cars. Registering a car in some states will automatically register you to vote. What process of registering your car proves that you’re a citizen and should be eligible to vote?
And before you go twisting my words again. I’m not stating that this is happening on some impossible insurmountable scale. But it’s certainly happening. The government fucks up all the time… This process would be no different.
My point is still that there is no risk to an illegal alien to attempt to vote. The worst that happens is the vote is caught the thrown out.
I’m not the person you responded to and I’ve moved no goalposts. I’m pointing out that you’re misrepresenting reality to make your point. I’m in a state (Georgia) that gives you the option to register to vote when getting or renewing your license. On the form it is simply a checkbox. This seems like a clearly abusable system if you do as you have, which is to look at the surface level of the situation and cry foul, but the underlying reality is different.
In order to get my license I was required to provide documentation of my citizenship (in my case an original birth certificate) as well as evidence of my current address (in my case a utility bill). This underlying evidence is what is used to control my voter registration and prove I’m eligible to vote. Car registration is supposed to be tied to your home address and is handled by parts of the local government that share information, so being given an option to update an address for voting purposes when updating registration makes sense to me. I am not aware of if that is possible on my state. While I do not personally have experience with obtaining a license while not being a citizen and resident of my state, I know that whatever process exists for that doesn’t also allow you to register to vote.
If you’d like one I’ll give you a goalpost. Prove me wrong and show me a single state where a non-citizen can register to vote, go to a polling place and vote, and then have that vote counted.
https://www.npr.org/2022/12/21/1144265521/florida-voter-fraud-cases-prosecution-update
Here’s evidence of someone who was ineligible obtaining a card and attempting to vote, although not an illegal alien. This should show sufficiently that the system isn’t perfect and that people can obtain voter registration when they should otherwise be ineligible.
https://www.ice.gov/news/releases/19-aliens-charged-voter-fraud-north-carolina-following-ice-investigation
And here’s evidence of illegal aliens voting and getting caught. This speaks that they’re at the minimum attempts to vote. We can safely assume that we don’t catch 100% of violators. And further don’t necessarily catch those that were successfully able to register without being found out since those would raise much less red flags if they successfully get onto a register in the first place.
If that’s not enough for you…
https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2024/03/06/truth-about-noncitizen-voting-federal-elections/
So when looked for… States that are aggressive about it find much more. And look at that NC… Almost like the link above now makes a ton more sense.
But how many managed to register and then subsequently vote? You really think they got 100% success rate?
Can we stop claiming that it doesn’t happen? And that there’s some risk involved when they do it? Every article that talks about it downplays it heavily. You can levy fines on illegal immigrants, they’re not supposed to work in the US anyway (and thus good luck garnishing wages), and according to the law deporting them isn’t on the table for attempting to vote illegally (check the second link). The most you can do is incarcerate them… except many states don’t typically like incarcerating non-violent criminals anymore. There is virtually no risk for walking in and casting a vote, even though it is supposed to be illegal.
So what you’ve demonstrated is that a fraction of less than 1 percent of voters registering in a few states MAY be non-citizens, a number so small it’s barely a rounding error, and that of that small number of people it seems we catch most of them long before they vote. I do not understand why this issue seems worth the effort you’re putting into it.
I’ll concede then that it does and has happened. However, I still think you’re going too far by claiming there’s no consequences while literally linking to attempted convictions.
I agree. I think he seriously underestimates the risks. If the person is here unlawfully, they have now caught the attention of the authorities and are more likely to be subjected to removal proceedings. If they are here lawfully, they now become deportable and, even if not removed for some reason, may decrease their chances at obtaining a green card or naturalization, depending on the circumstances. All of that on top of the criminal penalties.
I’ll repeat here what I said to you above in case others didn’t see my earlier comment and think your assertion is accurate:
Deportation is absolutely a risk for unlawful voting.
If the non-citizen is here unlawfully, they are always subject to deportation if ICE becomes aware of them, which may happen by referral during a criminal prosecution.
Even if they are here lawfully, they become deportable if they vote unlawfully per 8 USC 1227(6)(A): “Any alien who has voted in violation of any Federal, State, or local constitutional provision, statute, ordinance, or regulation is deportable.”
The reason “deportation” is not mentioned in the press release you cite is because removal is a separate proceeding, not part of the criminal proceeding (which is what the press release is about). They have to be convicted of the crime first, and then removal proceedings can be initiated.
Even if removal proceedings are not brought against them for some reason, they will still potentially suffer consequences for a conviction (in addition to the criminal punishment). For example, unlawful voting may prevent naturalization of a lawful non-citizen under 8 USC 1427 because they do not have the requisite good moral character.
Moreover, if they falsified documents to vote unlawfully, they may be found to have committed an aggravated felony, which means they face expedited removal proceedings, they can never get a green card, never become naturalized, can not be eligible for asylum, and can never reenter the US. See 8 USC 1158, 1182, & 1228.