I fucking hate them…
Almost the entire Lemmy (with an exception of a few .ml and other instances) is telling me how I and my compatriots are happily dying for our glorious master Zelensky, while in reality we have to hide and/or flee, because we just want to live…
I don’t know if they are truly evil and sadistic or just brainwashed by propaganda… What the fuck did we do to them to deserve this treatment??..
Anyway, just wanted to say thanks to those who don’t support this sadistic bullshit…
I don’t think there’s anything left to discuss with you, so I’m not going to be replying anymore.
You are a sadist who enjoys to see people suffering and dying. People who have never done anything bad to you or anyone else. You are a bad person. I hope that you experience the same fate you support for us.
Not everybody hates people as much as you do though, and that gives me a hope of a better future.
At least Romanians are kind to Ukrainians.
Eh, despite all the evidence and logic (why else would they prevent people from leaving, if not to force them to fight???) you’re saying they grab “partisans” instead of normal people that just want to live…
I don’t understand what Ukrainians did to you that you hate us that much…
There’s no evidence for it against so dispite that you’re certain it’s one way and not the other.
Evidence for what? I’ve linked evidence to what I was saying, you are ignoring it, again…
You’re not willing to give a country that’s being invaded the benefit of a doubt… I see why you fled you’re a sympathizer.
What benefit of the doubt?? Some of my family is in Ukraine right now, and each day they fear being kidnapped on the street… What benefit of the doubt you are talking about?? How am I a sympathizer for saying I’m afraid for the lives of those close to me?? You’re either incredibly sadistic or what you’re saying doesn’t make sense…
Do you have even a little bit of empathy towards people being mass imprisoned and sent to die in Ukraine?..
I asked you to point out where in my relevant comment the phrase “cede territory” exists
I kinda don’t understand what are we even talking about now in this thread, but here is quote of you talking about cedeing… I guess you’re trying to say it wasn’t about territory? OK then…
That cedeing to a country
the invader if offered zero resistance will simply stop invading out of the good of their heart
Please stop putting words in my mouth. Quote me where I said that.
What is it that makes you so consumed with hate
Whom do I hate? People who are trying to kill me and my family and friends? Should I be okay with it?
that you are willing to fully align with the russian propaganda?
I do not “fully align with the Russian propaganda”, only with parts of it that are true… And if I said something that is false, I’d very much like to learn where I’m wrong, if you could just point me exactly what is it that I’ve said that is wrong?
you’ve given up any critical thinking
Please tell me what made you think so
None of those have firsthand accounts, quote one and prove me wrong
I’m trying to understand what you imagine it like. BBC taking an interview of someone who was grabbed off the street? The chances of it are close to zero because 1) those who are grabbed off the streets are sent to die, not go give interviews 2) it’s not a topic that would be interesting to the western audience, because probanly nobody would be shocked by it and people are going to justify it by “oh well Zelensky needs to do that because he is a good guy fighting bad guys”, just like they do it on lemmy. 3) it is simply not in the interest of media to capture this, because it would go against the west narrative.
You disregard available evidence because you don’t like it, and instead ask for unrealistic.
Your sources say the state can’t deprive you of citizenship or make you stateless, you can however choose to be stateless.
Let me quote the piece of the article that literally says otherwise.
Вихід допускається, якщо
особа набула громадянство іншої держави або отримала документ, виданий уповноваженими органами іншої держави, про те, що громадянин України набуде її громадянство, якщо вийде з громадянства України.
No official account
Do you really expect Zelensky to officially say “we are kidnapping people from the streets so that fight for my regime”?.. Obviously it’s not going to be official…
Just videos of people being grabbed…
Some of them are with captions, so even if you don’t understand Ukrainian/Russian you can watch them and hear the offenders saying they are from ТЦК (the “recruitment officers”).
I don’t understand what you’re saying before the “page break”. You asked me to point to where it says Russia would cede territory to the Ukraine. It’s in this quote:
Ukraine would have promised not to join NATO, and Russia would have withdrawn to its prewar boundaries.
“withdrawn to its prewar boundaries” - effectively cedeing the territory it captured back to Ukraine. It fits your definition of “to yield or grant typically by treaty”.
Then how the fuck do you excuse Russia doing the same.
I never “excused” Russia doing the same. You put words in my mouth again, just like you do for the rest of the conversation.
Again, where’s your first-hand account
Can you explain why all the evidence I’ve linked is not enough?
It isn’t, linking a resource for finding asylum back to me doesn’t actually do it say anything and “nuh uh” isn’t a defense anyone but a child should be using.
What are you talking about? I didn’t link it back to you, I quoted you posting it - and replied that it is not possible to do.
So you didn’t flee, you fucking moved
I Ctrl+F my messages and didn’t find myself saying that I fleed. You are the one who started saying this.
So again, people can leave by your admission.
By that same logic people can leave North Korea. Is it true? Well yes, some people left North Korea, didn’t they? Yet you probably wouldn’t say that people are free to leave it. Then why are you saying that people can leave Ukraine?..
To be based in logic you would need evidence, what you’re using is emotion and inference.
No, I’m using evidence, but as you are ignoring it (and even calling hundreds of cases - one case…) - let me link it once again :)
https://uadraftmuseum.ch/ https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/other/ukraine-urgently-needs-soldiers-but-some-men-are-desperate-not-to-fight/ar-BB1naQUE https://www.rferl.org/a/ukraine-russia-war-recruitment/32310040.html https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-66542065 https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/aug/15/bribes-and-hiding-at-home-the-ukrainian-men-trying-to-avoid-conscription
Not getting grabbed off the street as you so claim but only have anecdotal evidence of.
Again, I’ve linked evidence, you just choose to ignore it.
If you don’t want to fight and won’t be an objector then renounce, move to the border (if you survive that long) and seek asylum literally anyone can do that.
I’ve already told you that it is impossible, and linked evidence, and you’ve ignored it. But once again, let me link it again.
https://www.pravda.com.ua/rus/columns/2022/08/17/7363468/
Let me know what exactly from my comment doesn’t make sense.
I’ve just re-read and it seems to be well-formed.
Can it though? Disprove it then.
I already did that though, by saying that your feelings don’t make something true.
It’s based on one single secondhand account…
What do you mean by that? The sources I linked contain hundreds of videos with such cases…
Hold on now, your claim was that they’re getting grabbed off the street and forced to fight. You offered sources, none of which say in any way that people are being grabbed off the street and forced to fight.
My sources literally show people on the streets being kidnapped and forcefully put into vans… Did you open any of the articles I linked?..
As I already told you (and linked sources), it’s impossible for an average Joe to renounce citizenship.
your bullshit fleeing story only proves that leaving the country is possible.
I left before the war started.
My family member left through the occupied territories, he had to lie to authorities that he had a reason to go there. So in the eyes of government he left the country illegally. Just like all the other people who leave through occupied territories or rivers/mountains. Or through giving bribes.
Changed one mistake from ‘on’ to ‘and’, now it’s correct
I feel it’s true and I’m going to say it’s logic so it must then be true if I use your logic
Well, this can be easily disproved - you feeling it’s true doesn’t make it true.
Now, I argued that percentage of people fighting involuntarily is only raising - because otherwise they wouldn’t resort to kidnappings.
Is there a flaw in this logic?
It wouldn’t change anything no, you’re a Russian shill be it Belarus or Georgia.
I mean I guess you can say it… Indeed, as a Ukrainian, for me Russia winning (or at least capturing the territory where I lived and where my family/friends live) is a preferable scenario, because in that case they will finally be able to leave and I wouldn’t need to worry about them…
Point to where it says cedeing territory.
to yield or grant typically by treaty
Ukraine would have promised not to join NATO, and Russia would have withdrawn to its prewar boundaries.
More immediate then dead kids, whatever would that be?
People being kidnapped on the streets and being sent to die.
Even your own sources say they aren’t being forced to fight, they get fined, imprisoned or renounce and seek asylum.
Oh right, because “fight or you will go to prison (where you possibly will be tortured)” is not being forced to fight… What kind of fucked up logic is that…
As for renouncing citizenship and seeking asylum - please send me an article that describes how an average Joe can do it. It’s not possible.
We all know it’s Russia.
Don’t know how many of you “all” are there, but you’re all unfortunately wrong :)
Although I don’t see how that would change anything even if that were true… My family member did escape Ukraine through Russia, by going to the occupied territories. They chose not to stay there though :)
Seems like a good advice… that is, for people whose lives are not being destroyed by USA :)