binary releases of VS Code without MS branding/telemetry/licensing - GitHub - VSCodium/vscodium: binary releases of VS Code without MS branding/telemetry/licensing
Well, it’s because after using the system for only a few minutes, I realise it’s not quite right, and I’ll have to spend a few weeks to set it up again!
That’s simply outrageous!!! As soon as I finish tinkering with my system, I’ll prepare a proper reply…
On a more serious note though. Don’t overlook the role of procrastination in the endless tinkering many put on their boxes. I’m speaking from experience.
I’m a full-time Vim and Linux user when writing code. I agree with the statement that “simply switching” editors is very naive. I’m my personal opinion, you should decide on an editor that makes sense to you and learn to be very good at it. If VS Code is that answer, then great. Not everything points to Vim or Emacs.
I’m still using sublime to this day. It keeps getting worse and falling behind VSCode with every new feature that never comes gets to it, but I have so many pet peeves with VSCode that everytime I try it I soon give up. I wish there were more options these days, but as the expected feature sets get more complex the number of options keep going down.
Same reason why a carpenter should learn to properly use hand tools, or a teacher should keep up on literature. In other words, master your tools. It doesn’t matter which tool you use, provided you can use it to its full potential.
I occasionally use VSCode, but I mostly use ViM because that’s my tool of choice.
For another reason, if your ever in the situation where you need to work on something on a remote server or an unfamiliar machine, knowing ViM means you can at least be somewhat productive when you don’t have your normal tools available.
I know vim. I’m using vscodium with a vim plugin. I was coding in pure vim for half a year because my Laptop with 4 gigs of RAM couldn’t handle vscode. I just don’t want to configure vim so it does all the stuff VScodium does for me
That’s fine, use what works best. I think there’s value in getting at least the basics working, such as syntax highlighting and linting in case you want or need to use it again.
The question was why one should learn to use something like ViM or emacs, not why anything else is a poor option. Master your tools, regardless of what they are.
You can also use Debian 1.1 but the makes zero fun as well.
Why make your own life hard for no reason. VIM is really really outdated when it comes to ease of use.
There is not a single thing where vim is better in any way. The argument that it is faster is the biggest lie ever.
Example: I write a few hundred lines of python code and execute it but sadly made formal mistakes. VIM does not help a bit. It might take hours of bugfixing with help of a command line.
Python addon and some others would have instantly found those mistakes saving myself a lot of headache.
That’s the same comparison as the senior developer and the normal dev. The dev might type twice as fast but making 5 times the mistakes he still needs a lot more time than the slow index finger typing senior.
The argument that it is faster is the biggest lie ever
Vscode is written in JavaScript and running in a web browser. Vim is written in C and runs at a console. Of course Vim is faster. Vscode is a hobbled cripple by comparison.
The rest of your comment suggests you are ignorant of vim with plugins and command line tools. I’ve tried vscode and while it looks nice, I am far faster when developing with vim and a couple of open terminals.
IDEs like VSCose are only powerful because they integrate coding tools like LSPs and completion enginea. Those tools are also available on neo/vim or Emacs, so you can be as proficient as you were with VSCode. Hell, even GitHub’s Copilot is available on vim!
And frankly, having started coding on Atom before switching to neovim, I find a keyboard centric, mode-based coding much more efficient than a usual mouse-centric workflow.
It really boils down to personal preference, but I’m eager to find some objective arguments proving that “vim is outdated when it comes to ease of use”, because that’s not what I experienced.
This is incorrect. Vim and neovim can reach the same level of functionality as VS Code through plugins and extensive configuration. An experienced vim user with plugins is as fast as an experienced VS Code user with plugins.
Getting vim experience and customizing it has a much steeper initial investment. That’s where the disconnect is.
There is an argument to be made that completely mouseless development is faster. This also requires a steep initial investment to pan out.
This is probably going to sound a bit silly, but legitimately the fact that it’s installed on most Linux systems by default (and if not full blown vim, then vi - or rather, vim-tiny often). VSCode has the Remote SSH extension, but the last time I checked it automatically installed the VSCode server (?) binary on the remote system. Often times I’m administrating systems that aren’t mine, and do not want to leave random bits of VSCode onto it. Even if that weren’t the case, its a lot easier for me to just open a file in vim since I’m already at a shell, rather than having to open VSCode, then wait for it to initialize (though it is quick!), activate Remote SSH and connect to the server which triggers the same initialization since it has to start the server-side component.
Another probably silly sounding reason is that the keybinds are the same ones that you use in a lot of POSIX tools like man, less/more, Firefox even uses / to activate quick-find (while you’re not in a text field of course) though admittedly I believe that is the only one, hell even bash itself if you use set -o vi (by default its in Emacs mode - this is actually a feature of the readline library that bash uses as far as I understand).
Though admittedly, those mostly are Linux/Remote Administration reasons and doesn’t apply to everyone - but those were some of my initial motivations.
vim is not outdated, it was easy to use to begin with and could not be optimized any further. Yes, there are plugins/extensions/… to add more features, but on a basic install of vim you have everything you need to navigate source code and config files.
lapce is a vscode replacement that has all the sugar that people love and it’s blazingly fast. It’s still in alpha but I’m very hopeful for it’s future.
I have looked at lapce and I am hopeful it will mature enough to replace vscode. I haven’t had the time to see if it works enough to replace vscode for my daily work, but I am planning on trying it again soon.
Fleet seems promising but not sure how I feel about another JetBrains editor.
Right now fleet is basically a community edition. They had stated there will be a paid version. So I am wondering how many features will be locked behind a paywall. Hopefully they have all the features from the beta available and just add some enterprise features to the paid version.
I really miss atom, would have been great if MS didn’t kill that project. It would be interesting to see how it would have compared to code.
Hopefully it’ll stay that way. Otherwise there is EAP I suppose. That’s what I do with webstorm.
For me it’s Sublime text. It’s blazingly fast and robust, but because it isn’t as popular as code and not open, there aren’t as many plugins. I honestly think that if it had been opensource, it would have captured the market share that vscose holds now.
That is incorrect. Both are pretty barebones from the start and have a big pool of extensions to get the functionality that you need. It might be more involved on the vim/nvim side, but that is more of an accessibility VS personalization thing.
There are even sort of distributions for nvim that bring you all the common functionalities already configured.
Alternatively you can use and support a true community-driven editing environment dedicated to preserving your freedom, like vim/neovim or emacs.
But that’s something new to learn and configure. I just want to code why should I spend my time learning another text editor when vscodium is fine
Careful. You’re in a linux-heavy audience. They’re the kinda people who would spend a few weeks setting up systems to use it for a few minutes.
Who uses a system for only few minutes?
Well, it’s because after using the system for only a few minutes, I realise it’s not quite right, and I’ll have to spend a few weeks to set it up again!
That’s simply outrageous!!! As soon as I finish tinkering with my system, I’ll prepare a proper reply…
On a more serious note though. Don’t overlook the role of procrastination in the endless tinkering many put on their boxes. I’m speaking from experience.
I’m a full-time Vim and Linux user when writing code. I agree with the statement that “simply switching” editors is very naive. I’m my personal opinion, you should decide on an editor that makes sense to you and learn to be very good at it. If VS Code is that answer, then great. Not everything points to Vim or Emacs.
Who doesn’t want to go through learning of text editor and pain of configuring instead of actually coding?
Well…obviously them.
That’s fine too. Use whatever does the job for you, but give alternatives a try if you ever have the time.
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Vim and EMACS require tons of plugins and a brain transplant to feel confortable using them.
And the new personality tends to be somewhat evangelical about the editors 😄
New, since the 80s
I meant the new implanted personality. Not historically new.
Personally i find emacs plugin packs like Doom Emacs to make it infinitely nicer, no brain transplant needed
The plural of anecdote is not data.
I’m still using sublime to this day. It keeps getting worse and falling behind VSCode with every new feature that never comes gets to it, but I have so many pet peeves with VSCode that everytime I try it I soon give up. I wish there were more options these days, but as the expected feature sets get more complex the number of options keep going down.
But isn’t atom and vscodium almost the same stuff?
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I was under the impression that was a fork of atom
No, but there is a fork of atom being developed called Pulsar.
https://pulsar-edit.dev/
Well, if you learned emacs, you could do everything in it and won’t have to change ever again! /s kinda
Same reason why a carpenter should learn to properly use hand tools, or a teacher should keep up on literature. In other words, master your tools. It doesn’t matter which tool you use, provided you can use it to its full potential.
I occasionally use VSCode, but I mostly use ViM because that’s my tool of choice.
For another reason, if your ever in the situation where you need to work on something on a remote server or an unfamiliar machine, knowing ViM means you can at least be somewhat productive when you don’t have your normal tools available.
I know vim. I’m using vscodium with a vim plugin. I was coding in pure vim for half a year because my Laptop with 4 gigs of RAM couldn’t handle vscode. I just don’t want to configure vim so it does all the stuff VScodium does for me
That’s fine, use what works best. I think there’s value in getting at least the basics working, such as syntax highlighting and linting in case you want or need to use it again.
The question was why one should learn to use something like ViM or emacs, not why anything else is a poor option. Master your tools, regardless of what they are.
You can also use Debian 1.1 but the makes zero fun as well.
Why make your own life hard for no reason. VIM is really really outdated when it comes to ease of use.
There is not a single thing where vim is better in any way. The argument that it is faster is the biggest lie ever.
Example: I write a few hundred lines of python code and execute it but sadly made formal mistakes. VIM does not help a bit. It might take hours of bugfixing with help of a command line.
Python addon and some others would have instantly found those mistakes saving myself a lot of headache.
That’s the same comparison as the senior developer and the normal dev. The dev might type twice as fast but making 5 times the mistakes he still needs a lot more time than the slow index finger typing senior.
Vscode is written in JavaScript and running in a web browser. Vim is written in C and runs at a console. Of course Vim is faster. Vscode is a hobbled cripple by comparison.
The rest of your comment suggests you are ignorant of vim with plugins and command line tools. I’ve tried vscode and while it looks nice, I am far faster when developing with vim and a couple of open terminals.
IDEs like VSCose are only powerful because they integrate coding tools like LSPs and completion enginea. Those tools are also available on neo/vim or Emacs, so you can be as proficient as you were with VSCode. Hell, even GitHub’s Copilot is available on vim!
And frankly, having started coding on Atom before switching to neovim, I find a keyboard centric, mode-based coding much more efficient than a usual mouse-centric workflow.
It really boils down to personal preference, but I’m eager to find some objective arguments proving that “vim is outdated when it comes to ease of use”, because that’s not what I experienced.
This is incorrect. Vim and neovim can reach the same level of functionality as VS Code through plugins and extensive configuration. An experienced vim user with plugins is as fast as an experienced VS Code user with plugins.
Getting vim experience and customizing it has a much steeper initial investment. That’s where the disconnect is.
There is an argument to be made that completely mouseless development is faster. This also requires a steep initial investment to pan out.
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What features are available in vim that aren’t in vscode? Genuine question, trying to decide if I should make the switch
This is probably going to sound a bit silly, but legitimately the fact that it’s installed on most Linux systems by default (and if not full blown
vim, thenvi- or rather,vim-tinyoften). VSCode has the Remote SSH extension, but the last time I checked it automatically installed the VSCode server (?) binary on the remote system. Often times I’m administrating systems that aren’t mine, and do not want to leave random bits of VSCode onto it. Even if that weren’t the case, its a lot easier for me to just open a file in vim since I’m already at a shell, rather than having to open VSCode, then wait for it to initialize (though it is quick!), activate Remote SSH and connect to the server which triggers the same initialization since it has to start the server-side component.Another probably silly sounding reason is that the keybinds are the same ones that you use in a lot of POSIX tools like
man,less/more, Firefox even uses/to activate quick-find (while you’re not in a text field of course) though admittedly I believe that is the only one, hell even bash itself if you useset -o vi(by default its in Emacs mode - this is actually a feature of the readline library that bash uses as far as I understand).Though admittedly, those mostly are Linux/Remote Administration reasons and doesn’t apply to everyone - but those were some of my initial motivations.
vim is not outdated, it was easy to use to begin with and could not be optimized any further. Yes, there are plugins/extensions/… to add more features, but on a basic install of vim you have everything you need to navigate source code and config files.
Emacs isn’t super great for C#. The language server is a bit hit and miss.
lapce is a vscode replacement that has all the sugar that people love and it’s blazingly fast. It’s still in alpha but I’m very hopeful for it’s future.
I have looked at lapce and I am hopeful it will mature enough to replace vscode. I haven’t had the time to see if it works enough to replace vscode for my daily work, but I am planning on trying it again soon.
Fleet seems promising but not sure how I feel about another JetBrains editor.
Glad you liked it :) It still has issues but the development is happening at breakneck pace. I’m planning on daily driving it once it goes beta.
I also have conflicting feelings about jetbrains IDEs. Does fleet have a community edition? I use pycharm sometimes but also hate it sometimes.
Right now fleet is basically a community edition. They had stated there will be a paid version. So I am wondering how many features will be locked behind a paywall. Hopefully they have all the features from the beta available and just add some enterprise features to the paid version.
I really miss atom, would have been great if MS didn’t kill that project. It would be interesting to see how it would have compared to code.
Hopefully it’ll stay that way. Otherwise there is EAP I suppose. That’s what I do with webstorm.
For me it’s Sublime text. It’s blazingly fast and robust, but because it isn’t as popular as code and not open, there aren’t as many plugins. I honestly think that if it had been opensource, it would have captured the market share that vscose holds now.
Am I going to be judged for admitting I use KDE Kate on here?
Kate is outstanding
Are there extensions for Kate as there are for VS Codium?
Not remotely as many, but yes. I find that for the work I do It’s more than adequate.
Nah Kate is fine if it works for you :)
Personally though, I use Kate. Ain’t got time to learn new keybindings
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That is incorrect. Both are pretty barebones from the start and have a big pool of extensions to get the functionality that you need. It might be more involved on the vim/nvim side, but that is more of an accessibility VS personalization thing.
There are even sort of distributions for nvim that bring you all the common functionalities already configured.