Most poor people in the West have huge carbon footprints because what they can afford to buy is cheap and imported from countries like China and, if they can afford a car, it’s not likely to be a hybrid or an electric. What else can they do? Should we expect the poor to live shittier lives when the people who are doing the vast majority of the damage are allowed to keep going?
60+ years old, not homeless but I’m by the government standards in US at poverty level.
When you’re poor you are and always have been living a mostly sustainable life, not out of choice, but because you can’t afford any other option. So you don’t eat meat at every meal, and if you do it’s the cheapest kinds and it’s never more than a cup per person, if not less.
You recycle/re-use/re-purpose anything you can.
You buy from thrift stores, flea markets, yard sales, goodwill stores, et al.
You ask for family and friends hand-me-downs, old pots and pans, whatever they got to give, honestly.
You don’t travel because it’s not even affordable, unless you’re gonna hitch hike or take a greyhound bus.
You don’t buy books you go to a library IF you’re lucky and one’s located nearby.
All your technology is old and/or used, refurbed, and if you’re lucky you could cobble something together (build a pc, for example) but you never have the latest and greatest parts etc, you’re always behind and just barely limping along.
You cut your own hair.
You make all your own meals.
You patch and repair your own clothes.
You suffer when it’s too fucking hot and you freeze when it’s too fucking cold because you either can’t afford an AC, or if you can, then you can’t afford to run it very long, and also either you can’t afford an appliance to heat your home, or if you can, it’s just barely ran so you don’t run it all that high or for very long; and with both AC and Heating, you never heat more than a single room, wherever you are dwelling.
IF you’re lucky enough to have a vehicle, you do you’re own service and repairs.
And, I could still go on and on.
I’m NOT stating that everything I did, and have done, and am still reduced to doing, is all 100% sustainable, but I AM stating, that without even purposely trying, just about everything I’ve ever do, always came about out of NECESSITY, rather than a conscious choice to be sustainable, and yet, being poor still brought about A LOT of automatic sustainable results. And I’m feeling it’s that way for most poor people.
If you can’t afford to consume a lot, then you ain’t consuming a lot.
I hear ya! I don’t have a car, so I walk to/from work everyday or take the bus if I have to go further than I can walk. I was surprised to learn that some people thought I was being “holier-than-thou” by not driving. I’m not trying to be a “saint” or whatever, I just can’t fit a car and all its related expenses into my budget!
for one people could just stop eating meat - or stop treating flying as a normal thing you do for holiday
the problem is that most people think others are to blame for one reason or anoher and don’t see that literally everyone has to change…
this whole thing is just a huge prisoner’s dilemma and noone will make the first move in fear of others not moving and exploiting that situation in the short term while ignoring that they are fucking over the planet in the long run…
You need to differentiate between poor in a wealthy country vs. globally poor. I know plenty of “poor” people in the US who can still scrape together enough cash for a plane ticket to go on vacation, but they’re still in tons of debt with zero savings.
You have to be able to afford to spend thousands to go to any major tourist destination far from you in the U.S. or Europe when you factor in the cost of air travel, hotel cost and food, not to mention any attractions you might want to see while there.
If you can afford to “scrape together” enough to do that, you are not poor. It really sounds like your privilege is showing.
People make bad financial decisions all the time? I dunno why you’re so angry about this. Like, would you say someone with $10,000 of debt, no house, making $13 an hour is not poor? I mean ya they aren’t destitute and homeless but that person sure as fuck wouldn’t call themselves rich, you know?
Plane Tickets for a city trip between European capitals are like 20-50€
Tickets to the most popular holiday destinations are regularly possible to get for less than 100€
Sure it’s not for the poorest 20-30% but I was mostly talking about the huge amount of people in the middle class.
My point is that it doesn’t matter - you can always choose. The American settlement-style of making it impossible to do stuff on foot even within cities is one of the very few things I’d count as something where you don’t really have a choice.
“Fuck the people struggling to survive for having the ability to live a little and go on vacation, they deserve to be punished the exact same as the millionaires and billionaires jumping into their private planed to fly 45mins to skip an hour of LA traffic.”
Got one guy yelling that real poor people can’t afford plane tickets and you’re calling me stupid for the opposite reason. Meanwhile I’m here like, I never even took a position on the actual argument, I just wanted to make a distinction between poverty in wealthy countries vs poor countries. Yeesh
Most poor people in the West have huge carbon footprints because what they can afford to buy is cheap and imported from countries like China and, if they can afford a car, it’s not likely to be a hybrid or an electric. What else can they do? Should we expect the poor to live shittier lives when the people who are doing the vast majority of the damage are allowed to keep going?
60+ years old, not homeless but I’m by the government standards in US at poverty level.
When you’re poor you are and always have been living a mostly sustainable life, not out of choice, but because you can’t afford any other option. So you don’t eat meat at every meal, and if you do it’s the cheapest kinds and it’s never more than a cup per person, if not less.
You recycle/re-use/re-purpose anything you can.
You buy from thrift stores, flea markets, yard sales, goodwill stores, et al.
You ask for family and friends hand-me-downs, old pots and pans, whatever they got to give, honestly.
You don’t travel because it’s not even affordable, unless you’re gonna hitch hike or take a greyhound bus.
You don’t buy books you go to a library IF you’re lucky and one’s located nearby.
All your technology is old and/or used, refurbed, and if you’re lucky you could cobble something together (build a pc, for example) but you never have the latest and greatest parts etc, you’re always behind and just barely limping along.
You cut your own hair.
You make all your own meals.
You patch and repair your own clothes.
You suffer when it’s too fucking hot and you freeze when it’s too fucking cold because you either can’t afford an AC, or if you can, then you can’t afford to run it very long, and also either you can’t afford an appliance to heat your home, or if you can, it’s just barely ran so you don’t run it all that high or for very long; and with both AC and Heating, you never heat more than a single room, wherever you are dwelling.
IF you’re lucky enough to have a vehicle, you do you’re own service and repairs.
And, I could still go on and on.
I’m NOT stating that everything I did, and have done, and am still reduced to doing, is all 100% sustainable, but I AM stating, that without even purposely trying, just about everything I’ve ever do, always came about out of NECESSITY, rather than a conscious choice to be sustainable, and yet, being poor still brought about A LOT of automatic sustainable results. And I’m feeling it’s that way for most poor people.
If you can’t afford to consume a lot, then you ain’t consuming a lot.
I hear ya! I don’t have a car, so I walk to/from work everyday or take the bus if I have to go further than I can walk. I was surprised to learn that some people thought I was being “holier-than-thou” by not driving. I’m not trying to be a “saint” or whatever, I just can’t fit a car and all its related expenses into my budget!
deleted by creator
for one people could just stop eating meat - or stop treating flying as a normal thing you do for holiday
the problem is that most people think others are to blame for one reason or anoher and don’t see that literally everyone has to change…
this whole thing is just a huge prisoner’s dilemma and noone will make the first move in fear of others not moving and exploiting that situation in the short term while ignoring that they are fucking over the planet in the long run…
Right, all of those poor people who take airplanes on their vacations…
What the fuck are you talking about?
You need to differentiate between poor in a wealthy country vs. globally poor. I know plenty of “poor” people in the US who can still scrape together enough cash for a plane ticket to go on vacation, but they’re still in tons of debt with zero savings.
You have to be able to afford to spend thousands to go to any major tourist destination far from you in the U.S. or Europe when you factor in the cost of air travel, hotel cost and food, not to mention any attractions you might want to see while there.
If you can afford to “scrape together” enough to do that, you are not poor. It really sounds like your privilege is showing.
People make bad financial decisions all the time? I dunno why you’re so angry about this. Like, would you say someone with $10,000 of debt, no house, making $13 an hour is not poor? I mean ya they aren’t destitute and homeless but that person sure as fuck wouldn’t call themselves rich, you know?
Plane Tickets for a city trip between European capitals are like 20-50€
Tickets to the most popular holiday destinations are regularly possible to get for less than 100€
Sure it’s not for the poorest 20-30% but I was mostly talking about the huge amount of people in the middle class.
My point is that it doesn’t matter - you can always choose. The American settlement-style of making it impossible to do stuff on foot even within cities is one of the very few things I’d count as something where you don’t really have a choice.
“Fuck the people struggling to survive for having the ability to live a little and go on vacation, they deserve to be punished the exact same as the millionaires and billionaires jumping into their private planed to fly 45mins to skip an hour of LA traffic.”
That’s what you sounds like, you sound stupid.
Got one guy yelling that real poor people can’t afford plane tickets and you’re calling me stupid for the opposite reason. Meanwhile I’m here like, I never even took a position on the actual argument, I just wanted to make a distinction between poverty in wealthy countries vs poor countries. Yeesh