I manage my schools IT - and when we started out a few years ago my board were pushing aggressively for Chromebooks. The service provider were talking about how they could roll out hundreds of Chromebooks at the touch of a button. When I asked about the lifespan of a Chromebook I got vague answers. I knew we would get a couple of years max out of each one so I instead pushed for much more expensive MacBooks. 5 years on and we are still using our original MacBook we got back then, with photoshop and other software.
I’m curious how something like Framework laptops would pan out for this use case. New they are currently priced similarly to a macbook, but in theory they are indefinitely serviceable.
This is true! And you also don’t have to worry about the proprietary-ness of MacOS, and there are also (certain ways)[https://github.com/Gictorbit/photoshopCClinux] to get photoshop on Linux too.
Framework laptops are the exact opposite of what you’d want in a school environment. This is how you blow your schools IT budget out the window. Cheap, disposable, consistent configuration and manufacturer supported are the key concerns.
These are kids with various standards of computer literacy throwing them in their bags which they also kick around and treat pretty harshly all day long. A $4k Framework-style laptop is just silly.
Not necessarily! The Chromebook version starts at 1k, with a no-OS one 50 below that, both pre-assembled. Additionally, the higher build quality with the ease of part replacements would significantly reduce the load when it comes to repairs. The downsides of course are the high up-front cost, but this could be reduced by releasing in groups (by grade level, for example.) Also, an advantage with unrestricted devices like this is that it’s very easy to flash/install whatever you want, including whatever user permissions and applications are needed to ensure smooth operation (e.g. specific DNS/VPN configuration for content blocking or access to school materials.)
Either that, or I’m speaking out my ass. Still though, there’s a lower carbon footprint involved when you don’t need to huck the whole device in the trash once something breaks. That should at least be some kind of incentive…
You can buy 2-3 cheap Chromebooks for that which will theoretically last 10-15 years though for your $1k. Basically no schools are going to turn that up vs a $1k Framework most of which will not last half that long with kids using them.
Sucks for the environment though as you say, I wish it were different.
My comment is in the context of someone who said they’re 5 years into their plan of buying MacBooks instead of cheap Chromebooks and they’re still happy with their decision. If they had said reality panned out as you suggest, then yeah, my comment would make less sense.
But then again, in theory, the more damage the laptops are going to suffer, the more you’ll save over time if they’re easily repairable
Also, you’re right that $4k for a framework is ludicrous. I was thinking more like $1500. But idk what MacBooks OP purchased.
Yeah, I don’t understand who’s buying these at all at that price to be honest. I’m not sure if its the profit margin they want or production-related issues due to the low number runs they’re probably doing.
Ironically the only way to use some old Macbooks these days is to put Chrome OS Flex on them. Apple is far more aggressive about killing off old hardware when it feels like it. You can still use them as-is of course but over time the browser and other web based apps degrade and refuse to work because of issues with TLS, CA certs (expired), discontinued backend APIs and unsupported web content APIs.
I have a 2015 fully specced 15" MacBook Pro that I’m trying to sell at the minute, which is proving more difficult than I thought it might, partly because the M-series Airs are so compelling, but also because it’s an incredibly powerful machine that’s officially locked to Monterey, which is now two years old.
Beyond Apple’s need for financial gains, I don’t think there was a compelling reason to leave that model out of the Ventura upgrades.
I had it running Ventura via OCLP, which it had absolutely no trouble with at all. But I can’t sell it in that state because while it’s pretty stable, there is still some extra fiddling needed with running an unsupported OS.
For me issues have only really started around the 5-8 years mark depending on the device which is ok-ish since the hardware is extremely outdated then anyway.
Not ideal that we had a percentage of our MacBooks on x86 cpus when the M1’s came out. But I will say they are still running strong. Others have pointed out that newer OS updates won’t work on the older MacBooks. But that’s not a deal breaker for us as we don’t run anything that’s OS specific enough to make the older models obsolete. We have factored in 5 - 7 years of use out of the laptops and we’re on course for that. I myself and using a 10 year old MacBook at home, and although I can’t fire up the latest Adobe Premiere on it, I can certainly get 99% of my work done on it.
I manage my schools IT - and when we started out a few years ago my board were pushing aggressively for Chromebooks. The service provider were talking about how they could roll out hundreds of Chromebooks at the touch of a button. When I asked about the lifespan of a Chromebook I got vague answers. I knew we would get a couple of years max out of each one so I instead pushed for much more expensive MacBooks. 5 years on and we are still using our original MacBook we got back then, with photoshop and other software.
I’m curious how something like Framework laptops would pan out for this use case. New they are currently priced similarly to a macbook, but in theory they are indefinitely serviceable.
This is true! And you also don’t have to worry about the proprietary-ness of MacOS, and there are also (certain ways)[https://github.com/Gictorbit/photoshopCClinux] to get photoshop on Linux too.
Framework laptops are the exact opposite of what you’d want in a school environment. This is how you blow your schools IT budget out the window. Cheap, disposable, consistent configuration and manufacturer supported are the key concerns.
These are kids with various standards of computer literacy throwing them in their bags which they also kick around and treat pretty harshly all day long. A $4k Framework-style laptop is just silly.
Not necessarily! The Chromebook version starts at 1k, with a no-OS one 50 below that, both pre-assembled. Additionally, the higher build quality with the ease of part replacements would significantly reduce the load when it comes to repairs. The downsides of course are the high up-front cost, but this could be reduced by releasing in groups (by grade level, for example.) Also, an advantage with unrestricted devices like this is that it’s very easy to flash/install whatever you want, including whatever user permissions and applications are needed to ensure smooth operation (e.g. specific DNS/VPN configuration for content blocking or access to school materials.)
Either that, or I’m speaking out my ass. Still though, there’s a lower carbon footprint involved when you don’t need to huck the whole device in the trash once something breaks. That should at least be some kind of incentive…
You can buy 2-3 cheap Chromebooks for that which will theoretically last 10-15 years though for your $1k. Basically no schools are going to turn that up vs a $1k Framework most of which will not last half that long with kids using them.
Sucks for the environment though as you say, I wish it were different.
My comment is in the context of someone who said they’re 5 years into their plan of buying MacBooks instead of cheap Chromebooks and they’re still happy with their decision. If they had said reality panned out as you suggest, then yeah, my comment would make less sense.
But then again, in theory, the more damage the laptops are going to suffer, the more you’ll save over time if they’re easily repairable
Also, you’re right that $4k for a framework is ludicrous. I was thinking more like $1500. But idk what MacBooks OP purchased.
Yeah, I don’t understand who’s buying these at all at that price to be honest. I’m not sure if its the profit margin they want or production-related issues due to the low number runs they’re probably doing.
Ironically the only way to use some old Macbooks these days is to put Chrome OS Flex on them. Apple is far more aggressive about killing off old hardware when it feels like it. You can still use them as-is of course but over time the browser and other web based apps degrade and refuse to work because of issues with TLS, CA certs (expired), discontinued backend APIs and unsupported web content APIs.
I have a 2015 fully specced 15" MacBook Pro that I’m trying to sell at the minute, which is proving more difficult than I thought it might, partly because the M-series Airs are so compelling, but also because it’s an incredibly powerful machine that’s officially locked to Monterey, which is now two years old.
Beyond Apple’s need for financial gains, I don’t think there was a compelling reason to leave that model out of the Ventura upgrades.
I had it running Ventura via OCLP, which it had absolutely no trouble with at all. But I can’t sell it in that state because while it’s pretty stable, there is still some extra fiddling needed with running an unsupported OS.
Monterey still gets security updates. :)
But they’re not as fun as feature updates!
For me issues have only really started around the 5-8 years mark depending on the device which is ok-ish since the hardware is extremely outdated then anyway.
x86 Macs are not the greatest example of longevity at this point.
Not ideal that we had a percentage of our MacBooks on x86 cpus when the M1’s came out. But I will say they are still running strong. Others have pointed out that newer OS updates won’t work on the older MacBooks. But that’s not a deal breaker for us as we don’t run anything that’s OS specific enough to make the older models obsolete. We have factored in 5 - 7 years of use out of the laptops and we’re on course for that. I myself and using a 10 year old MacBook at home, and although I can’t fire up the latest Adobe Premiere on it, I can certainly get 99% of my work done on it.
Really? I just handed down a 2017 MacBook Pro – still supported by Apple, meaning it runs the latest OS, and gets patches.
Can you give me an example of any other device with longer software support from the original vendor, at no cost to the end user?