How’s your underground bunker going? If you aren’t currently either living in one or building one you should probably stop talking shit about billions dying.
Underground bunkers are a prepper fantasy held by people with masculinity issues. They’re completely useless without supply chains and communities to support them.
What gets people through hardtimes isn’t individualist isolationism. It is collective support, community building and cooperation. The pooling together of labour within groups in order to perform tasks more efficiently overall for the collective benefit.
My understanding is that communities require children to continue existing. People in this thread are saying they don’t want children because climate change. My position is that that opinion is really stupid, and what you just said about communities would suggest you feel the same.
I don’t think there is any particular problem with people having fewer children. It creates a short-term labour burden in terms of having to divert more resources to elderly care but the rate of birth change isn’t likely to change too dramatically to affect much. You just reduce the population over time and that’s fine. Fewer people isn’t a problem as long as the labour exists to support the food, clothing and shelter output you require for the combination of capable + incapable that your community has. Starvation in the short term is the larger concern.
its better to enjoy what you have right now than be worried about the future which is not in your control. i don’t see how being worried will prevent climate change. might as well not give a fuck and live your remaining life doing whatever makes you happy.
You are selling apathy and do-nothing. An utterly abhorrent and amoral position. It’s no wonder the entire of gen z want to kill themselves when people like you are telling them not to worry and just sit around waiting for the end to come.
I am selling the opposite. Join radical political organisations that seek radical change. Take part in building the radical power and actually doing something about it.
No you aren’t selling hope either. Your comment was about 6 billion out of 7 billion people dying. You didn’t ask to do activism or anything… and joining “radical politicial organisations” will get you branded as a terrorist. There is a need for activism but under a capitalist system only profits will matter. There is very little under our control and only enforcing policies at govt. level will help.
I’m not asking people to sit around waiting for end to come. I’m asking them to do things which make them happy whether it’s playing video games or climate activism. Worrying about shit won’t fix climate change, strategical political and economical changes might.
It was like that to illustrate to you the scale of the problem and the scale of immorality hidden within the “just do whatever you want and be happy”.
Get organised. Join radical orgs. Get unionised. How many of you have even bothered to join a union yet? Like the bare fucking minimum. Of the people in this thread I bet it’s a handful. Join an org, go to a 1 hour fucking meeting once a fortnight. It’s not hard, everyone is just lazy as fuck and sitting around waiting for someone else to do it for them.
Absolutely NOBODY will do it for you. The working class must rescue itself. People need to get this through their fucking heads, the system has failed and is not going to reverse course. A new system is needed and only radical efforts are calling for that.
I totally agree with you. I just wanted to put into perspective that being sad and worrying is only detrimental to our own well being. To fight the fight, we need to be resilient. Being in a happy and positive state will help with what you’re suggesting. forcing corporations and taxing their ill-gotten profits is the most basic step we need to do. However, joining unions is hard especially in a poor country like mine. You’ll be kicked out of your company so fast and there are more than a thousand people waiting to take up your job. I’m not exaggerating. Labour laws have been fucked with so hard by the corporations that day to day survival is what most people can think about. Sadly, climate change is the least of the worries especially in poorer countries.
Mate at some point or another you do need to chastise people for claiming they want change, even posting on the internet about all the change they want to see, “remvolutionnnnn!” they shout, and then they do absolutely fucking nothing about it.
Every now and then a kick up the arse helps. I’m not “trying to reach out” to most of these people, I already know that they’re ideologically where they need to be, they already believe that capitalism will not save the planet, they already believe that every day is a step closer to mass famines and societal collapse, they trust the scientists. They want change. What they’re not doing is getting off their arse and going to people that actually want to do something about it. They inactive, they’re hoping something magical will happen with the existing capitalist political ruling class who have brought us to this cliff edge and that they’ll magically stop us marching right off it. They don’t even believe that they will stop the march off the cliff but something deep deep deep down is still making them hope and pray for the yesterday when they could just stay at home and be politically inactive, where politics was a thing that happened on the news and didn’t impact them too much.
Well that shit has changed and they need a boot up the arse to realise that. I don’t need to reach out to them because they already fucking agree. All we need is for all of them to get off their arse and actually do something.
So yeah I’m fine with how I’ve framed it. If you think I’m “reaching out” to you you’re probably still calling yourself a liberal, you’re not the target.
The “kick up the arse” doesn’t work. You’re just going to make people get defensive. You being rude gives them an excuse to not listen to you - now they can strike you off as a madman radical and move on with their lives.
This person was just advising to not get overwhelmed with anxiety and panic for the future because it’s just going to make the present suck before that future is even here. They never said “don’t take any action at all” or “it’ll all magically be okay”. Going to that person to try and overwhelm them with anxiety and panic for the future and calling them names for not being overwhelmed with anxiety and panic for the future isn’t any kind of rhetorical “tough love” thing you’re trying for it to be - it’s just a dick move.
Trying to overload people with fear doesn’t work. It’s actually a denialist tactic, when your brain is so overloaded with fear it can’t function with it, everything turns into a blurry mess as a self defense mechanism. You stop thinking about it, that’s what most conscious people have done. Very, very few people have genuine faith and trust in today’s political authorities. But regardless, in that state it’s very easy to fall for a counter narrative just to be more calm with your life.
Also, I’m not a liberal. Not every country has an organized and effective radical left. In here the most radical leftist parties are leninists who only sit on their asses writing articles on websites that look from the 90s about how we should support ISIS in their anti-imperialist struggle. I focus on improving and sustaining my own community.
Completely disagree. Have seen it work plenty of times and will absolutely continue doing it. Shame is a powerful motivator and you’re simply wrong.
In here the most radical leftist parties are leninists so all they do is sit on their asses writing articles on websites that look from the 90s about how we should support ISIS in their anti-imperialist struggle. I focus on improving and sustaining my own community.
This is bollocks mate and just tells me you literally do not participate by highlighting that you have absolutely no clue what anyone is doing. You’re mad at me for chastising you because you feel that it applies to you.
Go and join an org and stop making excuses. Start with a union.
I’m confident from your other comments that I don’t like the specifics of radical political organizations you mean, but the general message is correct, apathy destroys people and societies.
[This study compared capitalist and socialist countries in measures of the physical quality of life (PQL), taking into account the level of economic development. The World Bank was the principal source of statistical data, which pertained to 123 countries and approximately 97 percent of the world’s population.)
So you’re ignoring 85% of the capitalist world then. Cool.
I can make socialism look fucking awesome if I ignore the 85% of it that performs the worst too.
And that’s completely ignoring the fact that every single bit of standard of living you get in the western empire comes off the backs of exploitation of the global south.
Naming germany is fun, eastern germany used to be socialist and wants to go back to socialism, while Berlin’s population voted to expropriate all property from all major landlords via a referendum, seizing 1.5million homes owned by the parasites. And what’s happening over in Salzburg city proper where 20% voting for the communist party might spook you, 1 in 5 reds under the bed! Ooger booger!
“Global food chains” have lots of strategic depth. When you see a crisis somewhere affecting those and causing famine, that’s usually for the regulation time, not until the crisis itself is resolved, and scaled accordingly, not on the scale of the crisis itself.
Most of the agriculture on our planet works inefficiently. Such an event, if we accept your scale, would just ultimately destroy the producers who do that in favor of those with modern effective means like intensive gardens etc, like many in Israel or Netherlands.
Now, this surely is going to give power to people we maybe don’t want to have it. But this doesn’t mean 6 bln people dying.
EDIT: Forgot to say - climate change is not something which would happen in an instant, so it’s going to be regulated more efficiently than, say, crises caused by wars and revolutions.
You are completely out of touch with what is actually being said by the people screaming that we are on the way off the cliff. They are warning that shit is happening much faster than originally predicted, and they were already originally predicting that the food supply collapse would happen by 2040 years ago. This is happening sooner than you realise. Oh and guess what?
Food collapse isn’t something that happens slowly either mate. Everything in our system is interlinked, when part of the chain breaks we will get complete global chaos. Worse though, when things get real bad there will be no more ability for anyone to cooperate internationally. Once chaos begins it will be impossible to both bring down carbon and maintain order with nations of people rioting and dying from famine.
There is an extreme sense of urgency that some of you are just absolutely not getting at all about this.
I’m not the one fucking saying it. If you ever bothered to read you’d know that it’s the research scientists and professors at the the university of Exeter in one of those links, or the research scientists and professors at the Columbia University in another, or the research scientists at the Anglia Ruskin University in another.
You are literally just a denier. Did you deny covid was serious too? Post some anti mask and anti lockdown shit?
Lmao good luck with that when global food chains collapse.
Welcome to the battle sphere. 7billion people enter, 1 billion people leave.
How’s your underground bunker going? If you aren’t currently either living in one or building one you should probably stop talking shit about billions dying.
Underground bunkers are a prepper fantasy held by people with masculinity issues. They’re completely useless without supply chains and communities to support them.
What gets people through hardtimes isn’t individualist isolationism. It is collective support, community building and cooperation. The pooling together of labour within groups in order to perform tasks more efficiently overall for the collective benefit.
My understanding is that communities require children to continue existing. People in this thread are saying they don’t want children because climate change. My position is that that opinion is really stupid, and what you just said about communities would suggest you feel the same.
I don’t think there is any particular problem with people having fewer children. It creates a short-term labour burden in terms of having to divert more resources to elderly care but the rate of birth change isn’t likely to change too dramatically to affect much. You just reduce the population over time and that’s fine. Fewer people isn’t a problem as long as the labour exists to support the food, clothing and shelter output you require for the combination of capable + incapable that your community has. Starvation in the short term is the larger concern.
its better to enjoy what you have right now than be worried about the future which is not in your control. i don’t see how being worried will prevent climate change. might as well not give a fuck and live your remaining life doing whatever makes you happy.
You are selling apathy and do-nothing. An utterly abhorrent and amoral position. It’s no wonder the entire of gen z want to kill themselves when people like you are telling them not to worry and just sit around waiting for the end to come.
I am selling the opposite. Join radical political organisations that seek radical change. Take part in building the radical power and actually doing something about it.
No you aren’t selling hope either. Your comment was about 6 billion out of 7 billion people dying. You didn’t ask to do activism or anything… and joining “radical politicial organisations” will get you branded as a terrorist. There is a need for activism but under a capitalist system only profits will matter. There is very little under our control and only enforcing policies at govt. level will help.
I’m not asking people to sit around waiting for end to come. I’m asking them to do things which make them happy whether it’s playing video games or climate activism. Worrying about shit won’t fix climate change, strategical political and economical changes might.
It was like that to illustrate to you the scale of the problem and the scale of immorality hidden within the “just do whatever you want and be happy”.
Get organised. Join radical orgs. Get unionised. How many of you have even bothered to join a union yet? Like the bare fucking minimum. Of the people in this thread I bet it’s a handful. Join an org, go to a 1 hour fucking meeting once a fortnight. It’s not hard, everyone is just lazy as fuck and sitting around waiting for someone else to do it for them.
Absolutely NOBODY will do it for you. The working class must rescue itself. People need to get this through their fucking heads, the system has failed and is not going to reverse course. A new system is needed and only radical efforts are calling for that.
I totally agree with you. I just wanted to put into perspective that being sad and worrying is only detrimental to our own well being. To fight the fight, we need to be resilient. Being in a happy and positive state will help with what you’re suggesting. forcing corporations and taxing their ill-gotten profits is the most basic step we need to do. However, joining unions is hard especially in a poor country like mine. You’ll be kicked out of your company so fast and there are more than a thousand people waiting to take up your job. I’m not exaggerating. Labour laws have been fucked with so hard by the corporations that day to day survival is what most people can think about. Sadly, climate change is the least of the worries especially in poorer countries.
Wonderful political strategy, insulting everyone you’re trying to reach out to.
Mate at some point or another you do need to chastise people for claiming they want change, even posting on the internet about all the change they want to see, “remvolutionnnnn!” they shout, and then they do absolutely fucking nothing about it.
Every now and then a kick up the arse helps. I’m not “trying to reach out” to most of these people, I already know that they’re ideologically where they need to be, they already believe that capitalism will not save the planet, they already believe that every day is a step closer to mass famines and societal collapse, they trust the scientists. They want change. What they’re not doing is getting off their arse and going to people that actually want to do something about it. They inactive, they’re hoping something magical will happen with the existing capitalist political ruling class who have brought us to this cliff edge and that they’ll magically stop us marching right off it. They don’t even believe that they will stop the march off the cliff but something deep deep deep down is still making them hope and pray for the yesterday when they could just stay at home and be politically inactive, where politics was a thing that happened on the news and didn’t impact them too much.
Well that shit has changed and they need a boot up the arse to realise that. I don’t need to reach out to them because they already fucking agree. All we need is for all of them to get off their arse and actually do something.
So yeah I’m fine with how I’ve framed it. If you think I’m “reaching out” to you you’re probably still calling yourself a liberal, you’re not the target.
The “kick up the arse” doesn’t work. You’re just going to make people get defensive. You being rude gives them an excuse to not listen to you - now they can strike you off as a madman radical and move on with their lives.
This person was just advising to not get overwhelmed with anxiety and panic for the future because it’s just going to make the present suck before that future is even here. They never said “don’t take any action at all” or “it’ll all magically be okay”. Going to that person to try and overwhelm them with anxiety and panic for the future and calling them names for not being overwhelmed with anxiety and panic for the future isn’t any kind of rhetorical “tough love” thing you’re trying for it to be - it’s just a dick move.
Trying to overload people with fear doesn’t work. It’s actually a denialist tactic, when your brain is so overloaded with fear it can’t function with it, everything turns into a blurry mess as a self defense mechanism. You stop thinking about it, that’s what most conscious people have done. Very, very few people have genuine faith and trust in today’s political authorities. But regardless, in that state it’s very easy to fall for a counter narrative just to be more calm with your life.
Also, I’m not a liberal. Not every country has an organized and effective radical left. In here the most radical leftist parties are leninists who only sit on their asses writing articles on websites that look from the 90s about how we should support ISIS in their anti-imperialist struggle. I focus on improving and sustaining my own community.
Completely disagree. Have seen it work plenty of times and will absolutely continue doing it. Shame is a powerful motivator and you’re simply wrong.
This is bollocks mate and just tells me you literally do not participate by highlighting that you have absolutely no clue what anyone is doing. You’re mad at me for chastising you because you feel that it applies to you.
Go and join an org and stop making excuses. Start with a union.
I’m confident from your other comments that I don’t like the specifics of radical political organizations you mean, but the general message is correct, apathy destroys people and societies.
“I would prefer to starve than have socialism”
Socialism leads to starvation.
[…]
You mean in the middle of nowhere with some camel shit here and there socialism would produce better quality of life? Yeah, maybe.
Only “capitalist” countries may be on that level of development, and may be on the level of USA or maybe Germany or Finland.
While “socialist” countries are not represented on the latter, why would that be?
So you’re ignoring 85% of the capitalist world then. Cool.
I can make socialism look fucking awesome if I ignore the 85% of it that performs the worst too.
And that’s completely ignoring the fact that every single bit of standard of living you get in the western empire comes off the backs of exploitation of the global south.
Naming germany is fun, eastern germany used to be socialist and wants to go back to socialism, while Berlin’s population voted to expropriate all property from all major landlords via a referendum, seizing 1.5million homes owned by the parasites. And what’s happening over in Salzburg city proper where 20% voting for the communist party might spook you, 1 in 5 reds under the bed! Ooger booger!
“Global food chains” have lots of strategic depth. When you see a crisis somewhere affecting those and causing famine, that’s usually for the regulation time, not until the crisis itself is resolved, and scaled accordingly, not on the scale of the crisis itself.
Most of the agriculture on our planet works inefficiently. Such an event, if we accept your scale, would just ultimately destroy the producers who do that in favor of those with modern effective means like intensive gardens etc, like many in Israel or Netherlands.
Now, this surely is going to give power to people we maybe don’t want to have it. But this doesn’t mean 6 bln people dying.
EDIT: Forgot to say - climate change is not something which would happen in an instant, so it’s going to be regulated more efficiently than, say, crises caused by wars and revolutions.
Literally every single piece of climate research is predict global food chain collapse. The most recent calls are saying that we will hit tipping points that guarantee this in the next five years.
You are completely out of touch with what is actually being said by the people screaming that we are on the way off the cliff. They are warning that shit is happening much faster than originally predicted, and they were already originally predicting that the food supply collapse would happen by 2040 years ago. This is happening sooner than you realise. Oh and guess what?
Food collapse isn’t something that happens slowly either mate. Everything in our system is interlinked, when part of the chain breaks we will get complete global chaos. Worse though, when things get real bad there will be no more ability for anyone to cooperate internationally. Once chaos begins it will be impossible to both bring down carbon and maintain order with nations of people rioting and dying from famine.
There is an extreme sense of urgency that some of you are just absolutely not getting at all about this.
What I’ve said is that it’s not static and you don’t know what you are talking about.
It’s the same kind of prediction as one of London being buried under horse shit.
I’m not the one fucking saying it. If you ever bothered to read you’d know that it’s the research scientists and professors at the the university of Exeter in one of those links, or the research scientists and professors at the Columbia University in another, or the research scientists at the Anglia Ruskin University in another.
You are literally just a denier. Did you deny covid was serious too? Post some anti mask and anti lockdown shit?
Removed by mod
The entire climate science community holds a consensus on this and you’re attitude is to just call them monkeys. You wanna recite the 14 words next?
Completely sidestepped the covid question I see.