• FrowingFostek@lemmy.world
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    7 months ago

    It’s an international poker game and everyone is cheating. To see politics through a campist lens helps no one.

    • Arcturus@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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      7 months ago

      Acknowledging that the US has been the leader of the imperial core — the countries that have been colonizing the rest of the world for 500 years now — since WW2 is the realistic, materialist view.

      Only difference now is that it’s changed form to mainly the economic subjugation (neocolonialism) of “former” colonies through unequal exchange under capitalism rather than direct military subjugation — though the US still has a major actual settler colony committing a genocide in Palestine right now.

      Any country that tries to escape this system (by nationalizing its resources to prevent extraction by unequal exchange, usually by establishing a socialist state) is sanctioned (DPRK, Vietnam in the past, Zimbabwe etc), embargoed (Cuba), overthrown (Chile, Burkina Faso etc), or invaded (Vietnam, Libya, Korea, etc).

        • Arcturus@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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          7 months ago

          Well, the empire from Star Wars was based on the US empire after all, and the rebels were based on the Viet Cong.

          • rocket_dragon@lemmy.world
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            7 months ago

            That’s partially true, the Empire was based on inspiration from the US, Nazi Germany, and USSR. The rebels are of course the Viet Cong.

            • Cowbee [he/him]@lemmy.ml
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              7 months ago

              Citation needed on that USSR claim, Lucas has only, to my knowledge, spoken of the USSR with respect to the inspiration he took from their film industry. He’s outright stated that the Empire is the US and the Rebels the Viet Cong, plus there are the obvious allusions to the Nazis with Stormtroopers and the color of the Empire’s unirorms, but to my knowledge nothing connecting to the USSR.

              • rocket_dragon@lemmy.world
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                7 months ago

                Return of the Jedi special edition commentary.

                Believe it or not, Lucas is capable of finding both positives and negatives about both the US and the USSR.

                Most of the aesthetic of Empire architecture is inspired by brutalist Soviet architecture, and ceremony for the Emperor’s arrival was inspired by October Revolution Day military parades.

              • rocket_dragon@lemmy.world
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                7 months ago

                The USSR was also a fascist dictatorship, the actual bureaucratic structure of the Galactic Empire much more closely resembles the USSR.

                Edit: good points were made, it’s overly reductive to call the USSR a facist dictatorship

                • Cowbee [he/him]@lemmy.ml
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                  7 months ago

                  This, I disagree with. The USSR was Marxist-Leninist and run by Soviets, not a fascist millitary dictatorship. Whether or not you or I believe the USSR was truly democratic or a betrayal of Socialist values is of little consequence when compared to the vastly different structure of Nazi Germany, which was a blend of corporations and an ethno-state.

                  The Empire appears to be more similar to Nazi Germany, where there exists a blend of corporations with a totalitarian state, rather than a command economy centered around worker councils.

                  • rocket_dragon@lemmy.world
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                    7 months ago

                    I think it’s hard to argue that the USSR wasn’t a military dictatorship under Stalin. The USSR was hyper-nationalist and relied heavily on extensive police and military forces that used excessive violence to keep dissenters in line.

                    The USSR wasn’t pursuing an ethno-state like Germany, but neither is the Galactic Empire. You might argue that despite the Galactic Empire being diverse in species, notably only white human men served as officers and leaders and dominated the military, but I’m not sure that’s an intentional world-building decision rather than that’s just how films in 1977 were made. I’m not yet aware if the USSR was known for being gender and race inclusive in its government or military structure either.

            • REEEEvolution@lemmygrad.ml
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              7 months ago

              Decades prior.

              Fun fact : The rebells in Star Wars were modelled after the Viet Minh, the Empire after the USA.

            • Queue@lemmy.blahaj.zone
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              7 months ago

              Even if it was, using media to explain ideas of politics isn’t new nor is it bad. Like how is using Star Trek or Star Wars or any other piece of media that the public is familiar with on a cultural level inherently a “Gotcha!” to an argument/debate?

              “Hey this book that was taught in classrooms has some parallels to current events.” “Wow, you’re using your understandings of the world around you to make commentary? Weirdo.”

                • Queue@lemmy.blahaj.zone
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                  7 months ago

                  That just sounds like you think people who can critically analyze media and the world suck. You must be a very boring person to have a conversation with, I can tell from this brief interaction.

      • FrowingFostek@lemmy.world
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        7 months ago

        I acknowledge the US has been the “imperial core”. The thing I take issue with is the finger pointing.

        As if the United States is unique in seeking out and pursuing its interests. China and Russia may not be the “imperial core” but, all nations will do what’s in their best interest.

        That’s the flaw with nations, the campist lens of “America bad, Russia and China good” isn’t productive. Das all I’m saying.

        • Arcturus@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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          7 months ago

          No other country controls the global financial system like the US, and imperial core countries in general, does through its dollar hegemony and global monopolies.

          Which is natural, since the entire modern world, its institutions and trade systems, are built on the past few centuries of brutal colonization of the rest of the world by western europe and japan.

          finger pointing

          Acknowledging reality isn’t “finger pointing”.

            • Arcturus@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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              7 months ago

              But they don’t, so talking about those "what if"s are pointless. China’s current interests — and, broadly speaking, those of capitalist Russia even after the USSR has been overthrown — are mostly in line with the Global South’s against imperial core countries. There’s a reason sentiment like this is common across the developing world.

              Many of western countries’ victims, like Cuba, DPRK, Burkina Faso, Palestine, etc., would not be able to function right now, or perhaps even exist, if they did not have China and Russia’s support. Of course, alot of them like Libya aren’t able to function anymore.

                • TokenBoomer@lemmy.world
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                  7 months ago

                  Some information might change your point of view:

                  At the core of all of this is the US attempt to remain the world’s hegemonic power, by augmenting military alliances around the world to contain or defeat China and Russia. It’s a dangerous, delusional, and outmoded idea. The US has a mere 4.2% of the world population, and now a mere 16% of world GDP (measured at international prices). In fact, the combined GDP of the G7 is now less than that of the BRICS (Brazil, Russia, India, China, and South Africa), while the G7 population is just 6 percent of the world compared with 41 percent in the BRICS. Source

                  I once thought that the US had made mistakes but generally was trying to do the right thing. But the more I read and learned history, the more damning it was towards America.

                  • Arcturus@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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                    7 months ago

                    I once thought that the US had made mistakes but generally was trying to do the right thing

                    Thing is, there is no “trying” to do something on a national scale. What nations do — what they can do — and how they react entirely depends on their mode of production and material conditions. And that mode of production for the US is imperialist capitalism.