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Meloni heads Italy’s most rightwing government since the second world war. Italy’s criminal code punishes with a fine ranging from €1,000 to €5,000 anyone who “publicly defames the republic”, which includes the government, parliament, the courts and the army.
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Meloni is definitely far-right, and comes from a historically fascist party. So he is just stating the facts here.
Do you mean the well the well known racist and fascist Giorgia Meloni?
Is Georgia Menoni known to the rest of the world as anything other but the well known racist and fascist Giorgia Meloni?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alessandra_Mussolini , proud member of Forza Italia and defender of her grandfather.
She blocked me on Twitter just for telling her a really cool fact: there’s an emoji of her grandfather. It’s this one! 🙃
I don’t understand.
Look up how her grandfather died.
I thought he was shot, didn’t know the rest.
Grandpa’s last look into this world was being hung upside down and killed
I didn’t realise there was a rope element, just thought he was shot.
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Fascists don’t deserve a discussion.
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Saves me the trouble of blocking them.
As Porco Rosso said: “I’d rather be a pig than a fascist”. Be like Porco Rosso…
Porko Rosso
Unless there’s a pun I’m missing here
“rather be a pig” and pork=pig meat
The character’s name is already Red Pig in Italian, though?
Yes but this is internationally friendly
I’m sure Placebo, a British band, doesn’t give a single dry fuck what this stupid Italian fascist wants to investigate.
Someone is about to learn what “Streisand Effect” means.
You mean racist fascist Giorgio Bologna?
They were in Italy at the time so I suppose they could have caused issues if they went full full fascist.
Didn’t the world fight a world war to stop this kind of government from taking full control over a people?
Nah, Italy’s fascists were never really purged, because the occupying Americans preferred them to the Communist partisans
I’m not saying that Americans didn’t play their dirty tricks as usual, but it was Italian voters that elected Meloni, not the US…
it was Italian voters that elected Meloni, not the US…
As if that matters. As if Trump wasn’t elected by US voters after massive disinformation campaigns and international meddling.
Whether the people are partially to blame or not is a complicated topic. Both in the US and Italy, about half of the population were educated/smart enough to see through their propaganda. The right wing party still won though because they picked their target audience effectively and tailored their whole campaign around that audience.
WW2 was started by the Nazis, so it was really them fighting for something. The rest of the world just defended itself
It’s a lot more problematic when the Nazis call from inside the house.
Ethiopians would disagree
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Nah, just the one. And it was because he was killing hordes of people, not controlling them.
Um Mussolini’s Fascist Italy was very much in the war
But Franco got a pass. Probably because he didn’t invade his neighbors and committed his atrocities at home like a good little fascist.
Wait, which mussolini? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alessandra_Mussolini
Ah, yes, nothing like forbidding people from calling out fascism to prove your government isn’t fascist.
how to tell if youre in a facist state:
the person accusing the facist goes to jaildeleted by creator
Then it’s not a fascist state. Moving on
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Historically, fascists didn’t start off with genocide. First, they got democratically elected…
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The nazis started by targeting lgbtq+ people. I wonder what scapegoat the far right has settled on these days?
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It’s the sign of a civilised state, where you can’t just randomly offend whoever you want a scale, you need to go to court and prove that you actually have proofs about what you’re saying. I applaud this move from the government, the left wings after years of cutting public services to bend to corporativism and ECB, leaving the country in the hands of all sort of migrants without doing anything for security, finally got what they deserve, and now everyone else is a fascist, but with no content
Oh, Lemmy has fascists now.
The left wing was cutting public services, right. Famous left wing policy. I think you’re thinking of liberals.
It’s astounding these people still don’t realize how obvious their tells are. Blaming migrants? Almost certainly an insensible right winger.
It can’t be that whoever has a different opinion is a fascist, also because I was just having a conversation, it doesn’t make sense, if everyone else is a fascist, the term loses any meaning and it’s hard to fight back the real fascists. Guess another issue with the boom of lemmy is that all the judge juries and executors from twitter are arriving.
No you’re just a fascist agreeing with a fascist government. Might as well call yourself what you are.
Let me guess, whoever disagrees with your subjective experience is also a fascist am I rite
Fascism has an actual definition. People pretending it’s just a vague insult are likely fascists themselves in my experience.
Did disagreeing with you makes me a fascist in your eyes? If so thanks for demonstrating
One of the main ‘issues’ with decentralised social media is that it allows the fringes of the political spectrum to have a platform. We’ll have to find a way to get along.
I’m not sure I want to “get along” with fascists.
Fascists get the wall
I’m sure I don’t.
My sentiment is the same, albeit wording.
I share your general sentiment, I phrased the last part wrong - just trying to be civil in my post. Defederation with fascist instances would be the best shout.
It’s called defederation.
Defederation is an outrageously blunt instrument for moderation.
It’s part of a process.
- Step 1. Nazi says nazi things.
- Step 2. Non nazi reports to instance admin.
- Step 3. If the nazi is local, the instance admin can choose to ban. If not, the instance admin can choose to ban the user from their own instance and then escalate to the nazi’s instance admin.
- Step 4. If the nazi’s instance admin takes action, the nazi needs to find a new home, end of story. If not, that means that the nazi’s instance admin is chill with nazi shit.
- Step 5. The local instance admin can then chose to defederate from an instance that is chill with nazi shit.
To me this looks like a pretty robust process. What other steps would you add?
Main thing I can think of is an option for non-admin users to block an instance on the client side. Like blocking a community or user except it does both, for everybody from that instance.
Fuck you. I hope you were offended. Because that’s my right under the first amendment of the US.
Also fuck Trump, Biden, Kamala, Pelosi, Bush, Obama, Cruz, Biden Jr., Hillary, Feinstein etc. etc.
Seems like a great community with intelligent people able to sustain a conversation in the making, I’m understanding where twitter folks are moving
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That’s a fair point, I would agree in general, but those who are often asked to prove what they say are usually people in positions of power or with a huge base, like in this case a singer, not some poor working class. I can’t understand how why you people think that going to court for asserting guilt is fascist…
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I am not sure I understand what you are saying, it seems a bunch of buzzwords put together in a random way, starting from a civil court trial for defamation up to mafia to supreme court and back, they’re not even the same courts. Sorry I am not interested in juggling, there is a guy who has to prove that what he said has basis and is not defamation, he has money to pay for a lawyer, if you think everyone should be able to offend anyone without effects, be it, i don’t agree
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Proving them right, I see
Person: “You’re a fascist”
Government: “That’s wrong; we’re gonna use the power of the state to investigate and punish you for something you said”
Person: “Oh well I stand corrected. Totally not fascist at all…”
The USSR would also persecute people for criticizing the Soviet state or its leaders, but they weren’t fascist. Authoritarianism is something people on the left and right both get up to.
I’d argue the USSR was fascist the same way the DPRK is fascist. You aren’t necessarily left-wing just because you say you are.
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I can see the parallels but this really conflicts with the historical definition of fascist. Then again, practically everyone is a fascist these days at least according to someone, so maybe the historical definition doesn’t matter anymore. Guess that’s the downside of it being the universally despised bogeyman term in politics.
Thought it might be helpful to compare the USSR to Wikipedia’s definitions of fascism and communism. These definitions can be wrong or could be different than what they were at the height of the USSR, but perhaps it’ll help with finding common definitions. I’ll admit that my knowledge of USSR culture/governance is limited, so feel free to critique/refute any of my interpretations.
Fascism is a far-right, authoritarian, ultranationalist political ideology and movement,characterized by a dictatorial leader, centralized autocracy, militarism, forcible suppression of opposition, belief in a natural social hierarchy, subordination of individual interests for the perceived good of the nation and race, and strong regimentation of society and the economy.
Checklist (hidden for brevity)
- +Dictatorial leader: Stalin wasn’t exactly a democratic ruler. Check.
- ?Centralized autocracy: AKA: One person has final say over any government decision. Probably, but maybe not depending on your definition?
- +Militarism: Definitely had a significant military focus. Check.
- +Forcible suppression of opposition: Yeah, that sounds par for the course for modern Russian government.
- ?Belief in natural social hierarchy: Does semi-deliberate wealth disparity and nationalistic superiority complex count?
- ?Subordination of individual interests for the perceived good of the nation and race: Sounds likely, but not 100% sure.
- +Strong regimentation of society and the economy: Pretty sure the USSR had a planned centralized economy.
It hits 4/7 pretty firmly and the remaining 3 are plausible.
is a left-wing to far-left sociopolitical, philosophical, and economic ideology… whose goal is the creation of a communist society, a socioeconomic order centered around common ownership of the means of production, distribution, and exchange that allocates products to everyone in the society based on need. A communist society would entail the absence of private property and social classes, and ultimately money and the state.
Checklist (hidden for brevity)
- XCommon ownership of the means of production of goods/services: Weren’t these state-owned?
- XCommon ownership of the means of distribution of goods/services: ^
- XCommon ownership of the means of exchange of goods/services: ^^
- ?Allocates products to everyone in the society based on need: Wasn’t there significant poverty while others’ were well-fed? If distribution wasn’t tied to labor, then it could be argued this fits, if somewhat imperfectly.
- XAbsence of private property: Oligarchs don’t exactly scream “lack of private property”
- XAbsence of social classes: Again, oligarchs and poverty
- ?Absence of money: Can’t comment on this one
- XAbsence of the state: There was 100% an overarching state
Hits 2/8 at best, but I would be surprised to learn there wasn’t money in the USSR.
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Oh, Mellonhead is definitely a fascist, I’m just pointing out that you get the same kinda of oppression at the other end of the lef-right spectrum, too.
There’s plenty of oppression and violence smack dab in the center of the left right spectrum too. I’m not sure why horseshoe theory is so keen to equate Stalin, Mao, etc. with the violence of Hitler, Pinochet, etc. while ignoring the genocides of the Dutch East India Co. (and competitors), imperialism, the slave trade, settler colonialism, etc.
If left-wing authoritarianism isn’t an oxymoron, then what the heck does left-wing mean?
I agree that authoritarianism does not equal fascism, but the only meaningful definition of left-right politics (in my opinion) is a measure of belief in and adherence to social hierarchies. And the USSR was definitely heavily into hierarchy.
I mean we are kind of splitting hairs a bit then. The worst thing about fascism is mostly the autocracy and the “ends justify lots of murder” attitude. When people talk about the evils of fascism that’s what they’re talking about.
Likewise, when people criticize Stalinism, they aren’t talking about the high minded ideals or even the questionable fashion choices. They are talking about the autocracy, and the “ends justifyots of murder” attitude.
Stalin was absolutely a fascist.
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Read about Red Fascism in history…
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He really wasn’t, though.
All fascists are authoritarians, not all authoritarians are fascist.
Thats the fascist paradox.
Call someone a fascist, if they want to oppress you because you lied, then you are right, so they can oppress you, but if they dont oppress you, then you are wrong and you are to be oppressed, but then you will be right.
As Italian is worth mentioning that these nationalist dimwits we have now in charge have being elected with genius grade new electoral law pushed by the centre left coalition and especially devised in a bipartisan accord between the centre left and the centre right coalition to counter the rise of Movimento 5 Stelle (or any new “small” party) which would then interfere, as indeed it did in the previous election, with the well established bi-partitism which had been instated from Berlusconi (as per P2 Masonry Group Manifest bullet point, https://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Piano_di_rinascita_democratica and https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Propaganda_Due).
As result of this new electoral law Meloni is holding Italian government by the balls with a mere actual 16,4% of votes on the voters total.
Let’s go into numbers, indeed Meloni coalition (“centre” right, lol) got 43,79% of the total valid votes, of which 26% for Meloni’s own Fratelli d’Italia party, but you must consider that 26% does not include the 36,91% of citizens holding voting rights which didn’t actually vote at all, which means this non-group missed to be the largest non-coalition by little and de-facto resulted in non-being the most non-representative non-party.
So accounting for the 36.91% of non-voters Meloni is acting like an empress embodying the second coming of Mussolini with a scant 16.4% of actual voting preference. For this don’t forget to thank the center-left for pushing the afore mentioned new elctoral law.We have an old saying in Germany, from the times of the Weimar Republic’s communists, which roughly translates to:
“Who has betrayed us? The Social Democrats”
It rhymes in German.
Wasn’t the Weimar communist party also the one who said “after Hitler, us”, and formed a coalition? I may be completely mistaken and misremembering. My impression was always that it wasn’t the center left nor the left at fault, it was their feuding with each other that allowed Hitler to rise.
Had the two groups seen each other as rivals and not enemies, I think things would be way different.
I’ve never really been a Placebo fan or a supporter until right now
Brian’s duet with David Bowie is a thing of beauty.
Here is an alternative Piped link(s): https://piped.video/watch?v=c14qMbmP9eg
Piped is a privacy-respecting open-source alternative frontend to YouTube.
I’m open-source, check me out at GitHub.
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She’s litertthe head of a self proclaimed fascist party, isn’t she?
Yeah, but its a mean thing to say, and thats all that matters to a psychopath
Evil politicians aren’t evil because they have some spooky magic evil disorder. Please stop perpetuating this. ~Cherri
Fascist in everything but name. They want everyone to follow the same song and dance that they’re totally not fascist tho
So they’re not even pretending to have free speech anymore.
In a lot of ways, the fascism that Italy invented never left. I had hopes 20-30 years ago, but they have been roundly dashed.
sad but true
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I mean, this was always a crime, it’s not like it’s a new law.
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Except when you piss off a fascist, apparently.
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but he’s right, so what?
I’ve been surprised that some western countries have laws like this. A French woman has also been fined for insulting Macron.
The public prosecution department in Germany let someone’s home got searched because he called a conservative politician “Du bist so 1 Pimmel” (“you are such a penis”) via Twitter.
At the same time the public prosecution department in Germany regularly refuses to take action against hate speech when aimed against other people. Even other politicians.
And since many people do not really understand our jurisdiction, they believe it is enough to protest against the police.
I wonder what their response would be to a bunch of lemmings outside the reach of Germany’s laws doing the same?
It’s almost like making laws against free speech is a slippery slope.
It can be, but not all speech is free, not even in the US.
Them’s fighting words.
Nope. There’s a bunch of thoughts and speech acts that don’t contribute anything. There’s a reason the swastika and other Nazi codes/insignia are outlawed in Germany. “We just need to exterminate the Jews for a better life for everyone else” is similarly outlawed under an incitement to genocide clause.
There are very good reasons to put barriers on absolutely free speech.
What i meant was actually, fighting words are not protected under free speech in the USA. Not disagreeing, just making a funny.
To be exact, there is a difference between insult and defamation
I’m not too sure about the technicalities either, so I’m not sure if insulting is also a problem.
But declamation requires saying something false to ruin the other person’s reputation, and it’s actually a crime even against normal people
declamation requires saying something false to ruin the other person’s reputation
*defamation
Declamation is a form of rhetoric.
Somebody once remarked that it’s funny how everyone acts like Italians all walk around being Mario Brothers but the Italians just roll with it.
It’s because some Italians were the people who invented Fascism as a formal political movement, and you know damn well how that ended up, so if going “It’s-a me, Giancarlo!” every once in a while gets the world to forget, they’ll take it.
But then this happens, and you have to start talking about spaghetti as much as possible.
Don’t even have to go that far back: Italy is massively corrupt with organized crime running parts of the country and with a literal facsist representing them in the EU Parliment(Mussolinis granddaugher in fact).
And the fact that they kept letting Berlusconi run things is all the proof you need of how corrupt the entire country is(his “controversies” part on wikipedia is so large that it has its own page with 160 citations, he is also connected to the party of the person mentioned above).
But it has some amazing tourist location and food, so people gloss over that as well.
This has to be one of the most stereotypically racist remarks I’ve read in a while here on lemmy. They might be remarks, but still sheesh
Italians embrace their cultural and gastronomic exports while shunning certain parts of their history - I wouldn’t say that’s racist… In fact I would call that humanizing
So… they proved him right?
Kind of have to. Either he’s right and they do something of either he’s not right and broke a law, at which point they have to do something
Now, what I would do if I were Brian Molko is I would absolutely go to trial. Turn it in a show. Either I get convicted, in which case, Meloni looks even more like a fascist, or I get exonerated, in which case, it’s the courts that are accepting that she’s a fascist.
5000E is not an issue, he can fundraise that in an afternoon.
GO BRIAN
