This is just the price the poor are going to have to pay while the rich get to loot the country.
The poor are kept poor by being unable to even buy a pc… 200% import tax on electronics is the WORSE YOU CAN DO TO NORMAL PEOPLE.
I think so far this is what people wanted: end the status quo and apply shock therapy.
His supporters hope that in the long run the economy will become independent and the country would come out of the never ending crisis. My guess is that everything will simply end up owned by private interests and while (best case scenario) the economy will do better, people will suffer even more.
The Argentinian economy will not do better, only the wealth of the neocolonial compradors will, and the wealth of their Global North capitalist masters.
That’s what I meant, it will do better “on paper”.
They privatized many of the highways and you have to pass through toll booths every so often as ownership changes. These people provide no service, there are just taking the money. Same with much of the transit—many buses and trains are privately (mafia) owned.
deleted by creator
Well, I guess we’ll see. Currently I don’t really see how privatizing everything and opening real estate market to foreign investors helps poor children but maybe it will. My guess is that when the private corporations take over everything they will squeeze even more money out of the poor but maybe the wealth will somehow trickle down. It’s definitely an interesting experiment. My other guess is that if this fails all the libertarians will say that it’s because he implemented all the policies they like so much wrong. If he succeeds I’m definitely voting for the right wing nutjobs in the next elections.
The historical record shows that there are no maybes about this. It’s obviously not an “interesting experiment.” There’s no sense in giving these rhetorical inches while they’re taking miles.
What historical record? Can you point to another country taking such a extreme turn to the right while being in similar situation? And not being met with sanctions like in Afghanistan for example. I’m genuinely curious.
Can you point to another country taking such a extreme turn to the right while being in similar situation?
While that isn’t what I was talking about, Weimer Germany is the canonical example of a similar situation, but there are many examples.
What I was talking about is the historical record of neoliberal shock therapies, which Naomi Klein documented well.
If he succeeds I’m definitely voting for the right wing nutjobs in the next elections.
Uh, I saved this comment of yours for that one sentence.
My views are rather libertarian, but I wouldn’t trust most of the real life libertarians (too trusting into thousands of shitcoins or excited with reading sci-fi and busy writing and discussing articles about mechanisms of anarchy in the ancap meaning of the word).
However, if it comes to you voting for the “right wing nutjobs”, please remember that GOP in USA is not libertarian in any way, no more than Ukraine’s ruling party which uses the word sometimes.
I don’t live in USA. I would be voting for Konfederacja in Poland which has similar, libertarian ideas as Milei. They are always dismissed as idiots (and I tend to agree) but if Milei fixes Argentina I’m ready to eat crow and give them a chance.
I would be voting for Konfederacja in Poland which has similar, libertarian ideas as Milei.
They are in a solid chummy political party with neonazis and monarchists for years. This alone should tell you what kind of libertarians they really are.
I guess the right wing theory is that the president makes Argentina a great place to do business, business people rush in, and wealth trickles down.
But, that “trickle down” idea doesn’t ever seem to have actually worked anywhere. Maybe the best Argentina can hope for is that at one point when the economy is booming, the working people suddenly form or join unions and the companies decide it’s too risky / expensive to leave, so they negotiate with those unions.
OTOH, these days it’s so easy to move corporations around to wherever the laws are the most corporation-friendly. So, even if somehow the new president does make corporations want to do more business in Argentina, it’s hard to see how the people of Argentina will really benefit.
But, that “trickle down” idea doesn’t ever seem to have actually worked anywhere.
If you look at Switzerland, it does, just takes long.
That’s not what’s happening in Switzerland. Switzerland just has a weird niche as a tax haven.
I meant “last few centuries” by “long”, in that context your answer is invalid.
I would agree if Argentina wasn’t so fucked right now. The goal is not to make Argentina great but to get out of crisis. I think what can happen is that all this drastic cuts and price hikes will lower inflation and stabilize the economy. With inflation under control and normal interest rates people will be able to start saving money again, take out mortgages and import goods. This could improve their situation if public services survive but my guess is they will end up fully owned by foreign capital at the end.
I think what can happen is that all this drastic cuts and price hikes will lower inflation and stabilize the economy
It might, or it might not. The thing with inflation is that it’s based on people’s expectations as much as anything else. People have to believe that inflation will go away before it goes away.
The new president has one thing going for him, which is that he’s not a continuation of the previous administration. That means there’s a chance that people will believe that he’s actually making serious reforms. If they’d stuck with a prime minister who was the finance minister when the inflation was going nuts, I don’t think anybody would have believed that things were going to improve, which meant they wouldn’t improve.
how privatizing everything and opening real estate market to foreign investors helps poor children
the wealth will somehow trickle down
Spoiler alert: it never did.
He did say he would apply shock therapy to the economy. He never mentioned if the economy would come out alive.
Tankie much?
Diaper prices have doubled
I hate to defend the libertarian, but nobody could have forseen the IDF suddenly buying up the world’s supply of diapers for their troops in Gaza.
sorry, it’s been a bit since i’ve been to the news mega
what?
There’s a meme subtitle of a Hamas statement which says IDF soldiers wear diapers into battle. I speak zero Arabic, so I assume that it’s just a funny subtitle and not a real statement idk.
no he actually said that
Wtf extremely based.
Why would they do that? Already wearing the brown pants
Helps with cum collection later
They like the feeling of it
The highest concentration of adult babies in the world
I didn’t know that this was a thing and a now horrified.
offtopic: A bit of advice on your nickname - it’s “desantnik” in Russian.
death to america
The previous leftist government had used complicated currency controls, consumer subsidies and other measures to inflate the peso’s official value and keep several key prices artificially low, including for gas, transportation and electricity.
Yea devaluing peso from 360 for a dollar to 790 for a dollar instantly meanwhile is such a big brain play.
there is no such thing as a ‘natural’ price. every price is artificial. OPEC is literally a cartel ffs. The concept of ‘artificial’ pricing is so libertarian brained.
A Mileista friend of mine keep complaining about 140% of inflation a year for the past government, but now that yhey had like 300% in a week suddenly is ok and is just the true price of everything. Of course he dosen’t live in Argentina and dosen’t has his salary cut by a third in a week so it’s ok.
Always the gusanos living outside their countries that back their right-wing nutcases the hardest
I think in his bigbrain libertarian mind, the money market pricing of the peso to usd is what defined the value previously and he decided that the market’s pricing is not correct for that of the Argentinian currency.
By devaluing the currency, it makes Argentinian labor and goods comparatively cheaper on the international market. This is a similar move to how China grew at such a tremendous rate in the 90’s - they intentionally devalued their currency in order to use foreign investment in their relatively cheap labor pool to fund the creation of their manufacturing industries.
That solution probably won’t work here, though. Corporations are scared of investing in countries with unstable political leadership that performs brash actions like his. (Libertarian economics cannot account for such beliefs though since everyone must be a perfectly rational actor that chooses price above all). They are afraid that he may unilaterally nationalize certain industries and claim all assets for the state. Or he may rugpull outside investments and say that all profits must go to the state for some amount of time. Whatever flavor of stupid chainsaw wielding antics he comes up with one day is what they will see and use as a justifiable rationalization for not investing in the devalued market of Argentina.
I think in his bigbrain libertarian mind, the money market pricing of the peso to usd is what defined the value previously and he decided that the market’s pricing is not correct for that of the Argentinian currency.
You’re half right here. The idea is that the black market Peso:USD price represents the actual real value of the Peso, while the government’s official rate was miles away from this and completely divorced from reality and only remotely sustainable by endless amounts of borrowing, price controls, and money printing, which just contributes to worsening the problem. The hope is that a necessary but painful adjustment to the actual economic reality will eventually provide the stability necessary for real growth.
A smart government will know that, if you want to actually pull this kind of thing off, you need to do everything possible to make the transition as minimally painful as possible and do what you can to help protect the most vulnerable. We’ll see how Millei does, but I can’t say I’m exactly confident.
The invisible hand of Chicago School pseudoscience.
Every time I see that phrase it makes my eye twitch. ALL pricing is artificial. Always. No exceptions.
there is no such thing as a ‘natural’ price.
Have you seen a middle-eastern market? Of the kind where they bargain. Like in fairy-tales.
That’s how markets actually look in the wild.
And the natural price is the mathematical expectation of the price you get by bargaining.
It’s very simple and in this particular case “mainstream” economics and libertarian economics get along pretty well.
Have you seen a middle-eastern market? Of the kind where they bargain. Like in fairy-tales
imagine citing a fantasy trope to justify economic policy jfc
I don’t need to justify anything to you. It’s an example for educational purposes.
EDIT: And if you think it’s just a fantasy trope, then you probably haven’t been out of your state.
you called it a fairy tale, genius
I wonder what’s the longest text you’ve read in your life and understood anything at all.
Hey aren’t you that guy from like a week ago who refused to read a two paragraph article someone linked you?
I remember no such thing, but if you link me the thread, we’ll see.
no. because the prices are influenced by external factors. i live in a country where markets like these exist and the price is not ‘natural’ in any way, in an idealized world maybe but not in reality.
firstly, transporting any commodity (and inputs such as fertilizers) requires fuel and fuel prices aren’t determined by such idealized markets you mentioned, its determined by what cartels and oligopolies want it to be. you are also ignoring subsides, not just by the national governments but foreign governments. for example, developed countries provide a shit ton of subsidies which pull down prices in the international markets, without restrictions and tariffs these displace local production.
there is also the fact that food prices are very inelastic, the seller can push prices very high and the consumer will be forced to accept it because you can’t live without food.
i dont really get the middle eastern market you are mentioning because in reality there is absolutely price discrimination going on.
OK. Natural prices exist as an unreachable ideal point, but there are no absolutely natural prices in real world. I agree, and, BTW, no ancap would argue with that.
natural prices can only exist in an environment where every consumer and producer has all the information and is completely rational.
if you are rich and a vegetable seller who typically charges $5 for a vegetable charges you $10 you are unlikely to bargain as you would consider it a waste of your time and energy and just buy it. is this person being rational by not wanting to waste their time or irrational because they aren’t squeezing more out of the seller.
My two comments combined do not contradict what you say.
Thx for the link, I’ll look at it
There’s a meaningful difference between a government arbitrarily mandating a price and buyers and sellers reaching an equilibrium, whatever you want to label it.
You can say that price controls are worth it in some cases, and plenty of economists would agree with that, but they do come with consequences compared to raw market prices, and we shouldn’t ignore that, whatever label we want to use.
hopefully circumstances worsen quickly enough that it’ll be noticable for everybody so that the general public can clearly identify it as a direct consequence of this maniac being elected. If its deteriorating too slowly people might just not notice it as much and might go along with all the coming explanations ( probably immigrants, leftists, blahblah). If there’s a quick look into the abyss people might wake up and get into action.
If there’s a quick look into the abyss people might wake up and get into action.
And vote for the politicians that gave them slow decline again…
This is the standard political cycle in Argentina, like a giant pendulum. Someone starts screaming about how they will fix everything and gets voted in. Their incompetence makes things worse and the cycle repeats with someone new.
Libertarians around the world like AKTCHUALLY this is good for Argentinians! Nobody being able to afford goods and services is the cornerstone of a healthy society! I am very smart!
Idk what you’re talking about my guy. Pretty sure numbers going up is a good thing for the economy 🤷
Is everything more expensive, or just fossil fuels and disposable diapers?
If a coin gets devaluation, everything else to the coin becomes more expensive, so yes.
For example: If 100 pesos was worth 1 euro, but through devaluation 200 pesos is now 1 euro, an Argentinian would have to pay up double the amount for the same thing in euro’s. So international import is hard because everything from all over the world just got so much more expensive, but export ‘should’ be easy, because all your domestic products are worth so much less to produce.
I think fossil fuels and diapers just got even more expensive than that, but I don’t know why. (I’m bad at economics)
deleted by creator
Why does everyone keep saying child poverty?
Like, do children in other countries have some sort of massive wealth I’m not aware of?
To distinguish in their minds between people possessing free will and such, and people who don’t (yet). The first, the adult, is only a victim of their own poor life choices (in this individual responsibility-guilt view on society), their shitty life situation is supposedly their own fault. While children are ‘victims’. Thus advocating for equal chances rather than actual equality (which would involve shit like hard capping inheritance etc).
He can’t. That’s why he called his fellow tankies to downvote you instead!
Who could’ve guessed that a rightwing government wouldn’t solve their issues (which were originally caused by rightwing policies)?
No, you are lying. Argentinas problems do not originate from right wing policies but from over protectionism
- looks like someone needs to take econ 101
Yes, you.
You can’t just keep printing money unless you’re the USA.
The REAL exchange rate was wayyyyyy different as the official one.
GASOLINE IS IMPORTED AND WAS SOLD WITH SUBSIDIES. that can’t last, as your teacher will explain in econ 101
He has been in office for 2 weeks I can’t imagine this is a result of his policies yet.
I can’t believe this is happening. There was no possible way to have seen this coming from a man who cosplays as “General AnCap”. I’m just beyond floored that this man could do something bad to an economy.
Dude you are a moron if you think argentina was going well. They went from 4% poverty just 15 years ago to 35% (of population living on less as 5$/day) now. Thats LEFT WING GOVERNMENTS
Diaper fetishists in shambles.
Common Ancapistan W
I knew he was going to hurt Argentina badly, but I didn’t expect him to be this quick
I’m so glad Argentina pulled out from BRICS+, it would have been a drain on it
Brics hahahahhahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha Where nobody trusts each other enough to even talk about one single deal.
China and India are almost at war. China will invade Russia as soon as they can to take back kamtsjatska (and they should) Etc
I’m glad you are underestimating them, for a moment I was worried the G7 might take them seriously and do something
It’s clear you do not understand geo politics… Who is in the g7 with veto power? Which letters of brics?
The Security Council is made up of former Allied Powers, so the US, UK, France, Russia (successor to USSR), and PRC (successor to ROC). So 3 in the G7 and 2 in BRICS.
I’m not sure what’s the point of this question.
Now my turn: Name the bloc that just exceeded the G7 as the largest economies in the world.
Here’s the answer:
Not even one brics country trusts one other brics country. Nuf said. Hahaha you lost Argentina?
It’s beginning to look like Venezuela but with libertarians. It’s quicker than I thought.
No it isn’t. Venezuela is one of the most sanctioned nations in the world.
Venezuela’s economic crisis really began after oil prices fell drastically in 2014 and the west used Chavez’s death/Maduro’s election to increase pressure on the country via sanctions which for example made buying parts to maintain oil refineries difficult. Before that, it was doing about as well, or better (of course, failing to become independent from oil exports) compared to the other countries in Latin America.
Argentina was already in a crisis for the last …20 years-ish, but this acceleration of the crisis happened in a week even as Milei backpedaled on some potentially damaging promises like cutting trade with China.
Venezueal is a locked country that’s sanctioned to hell, Argentina is about to break incompetence records not ever seen before
Argentina has been doing the venezuela way for fifteen years, WHY DO YOU THINK IT’S SO BAD NOW?
If you have never lived in a place with a DECADE of ONE HUNDRED PERCENT INFLATION PER YEAR, you should just shut up already.
That will make EVERYONE poor. No joke!
I lived in Argentina for five years. I’ve spent much time since then trying to convince people in the US that you have more rights and freedoms in Argentina. This might be changing now.
Argentina isn’t sanctioned at all lmao. Thinking Venezuela is a failure is exactly what the US and its allies want you to think with the ridiculous amount of sanctions. Can’t have people see Socialism succeeding.
