The cursing of the fig tree has echos in other Jewish literature best example is Moses hitting a rock to get it to send out water.
The temple had to do business. It wasn’t practical for everyone to bring their own animals and the coinage issue wasn’t considered a big deal. If there has been a historical Jesus (again there wasn’t) he most likely started the assault on the temple because he was trying to fulfill the OT prophecy of its destruction. Kinda like when you want sex so you give your partner a back rub.
You got to understand all the accounts of man were written multiple decades later by liars.
Please don’t commit link dump articles you didn’t read advocating for a viewpoint that is not supported by evidence.
Jesus didn’t exist. No one can keep their story straight about events in his life. Everyone who spoke about his life was lying and we can identify the lines via basic textual criticism. Evidence of his existence that should be here is missing.
I am sorry your Messiah was just a grift by James and Cephus but it is better to hear it late than never. Happy Saturnalia maybe spend this evening trying to find the nativity scene in the Bible, and not building a hybrid one off Matthew and Luke.
Bruh I’m not even Christian. All of the events in his life don’t have to be corroborated for him to be a real person. You for example probably haven’t had everything you’ve done recorded but you are certainly a person because there are contemporary accounts of your existence. Jesus from Nazareth didn’t have to be proven to have risen from the dead to be a real man who existed.
Having a combative attitude isn’t gonna make your point dude.
I am an ordinary person so any claims about my existence are ordinary. Even a minimum historical Jesus (I am sure you know that term without looking it up ;)) would be extraordinary claim requiring extraordinary evidence. The very first writer of the man described a celestial being, not a human, the second writer of the man recycled Elijiah.
Why don’t you tell me which part of the claim you have evidence for? So far you have listed his name and village of birth. There were other Messiah figures named Jesus both from birth and as a title. Since it means saviour. As for Nazareth, historians can’t find it. Josphius names ten towns right around it and doesn’t mention it. After hundreds of archeological digs they found a barn, a barn that they can’t even prove was standing 0 AD, only around that time period. Could easily have been built in 50AD.
It’s not a bad thing to ask for clarifying questions… How the flying fuck do you think people learn things from people who are scholars/teachers/experts!? Did you never ask a single question in school or your job(s)?? How the fuck do you learn without questions?
Fictional constructs don’t end up having bitterly opposed factions splintering off within decades of their supposed death, but that’s an extremely common feature of nearly every cult organized around a historical central figure.
The specific depiction of Jesus canonized likely has many fictional elements, but the idea that there was no historical figure in the first place is pretty ludicrous.
He is almost certainly is fictional. I don’t see at all why you think it matters what people did after his supposed existence. Also not sure where you are getting bitterly opposed. Paul was sending money to the Church of Jerusalem. He argued but you don’t give free money to people you bitterly oppose. You also don’t write a letter saying how the leaders were good people. The fighting really started as Christianity moved into power and little spats made a difference. Plus you know we have no evidence that Buddhism had that fighting after Siddharth death and the Mormons didn’t break out into civil war after Smith died. Scientologists are also doing fine.
Every detail of his supposed life was pulled from literature available and was to generate a specific result. We can also see where they were taking “known” facts at the time and misrepresenting them to try to get what they want.
For if someone comes and proclaims another Jesus than the one we proclaimed, or if you receive a different spirit from the one you received, or a different gospel from the one you accepted, you put up with it readily enough. I think that I am not in the least inferior to these super-apostles.
2 Cor 11:4-5
Corinth then later on full on deposed Rome’s appointees which led to the letter from the bishop of Rome, 1 Clement that’s almost entirely devoted to trying to damage control the schism.
And why not say (as some people slander us by saying that we say), “Let us do evil so that good may come”? Their judgment is deserved!
Romans 3:8
I am astonished that you are so quickly deserting the one who called you in the grace of Christ and are turning to a different gospel— not that there is another gospel, but there are some who are confusing you and want to pervert the gospel of Christ. But even if we or an angel from heaven should proclaim to you a gospel contrary to what we proclaimed to you, let that one be accursed! As we have said before, so now I repeat, if anyone proclaims to you a gospel contrary to what you received, let that one be accursed!
Galatians 1:6-9
You can even see some of the specific concepts that there was a schism about, such as whether there was an over-realized eschatology:
As to the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our being gathered together to him, we beg you, brothers and sisters, not to be quickly shaken in mind or alarmed, either by spirit or by word or by letter, as though from us, to the effect that the day of the Lord is already here.
2 Thessalonians 2:1-2 (likely a bit later than Paul)
Avoid profane chatter, for it will lead people into more and more impiety, and their talk will spread like gangrene. Among them are Hymenaeus and Philetus, who have swerved from the truth, saying resurrection has already occurred. They are upsetting the faith of some.
2 Timothy 2:16-18
So I’m not sure where you get the notion there was one big happy family of Christian thought in Paul’s time and the later 1st century CE when literally the earliest records of Christianity we have are so concerned with competing traditions and ideas. You may be mistaking the survivorship bias of cannonical Christianity eradicating most competing thought later on for a picture of unity (as that’s what they try to project) which is why a closer read is warranted.
Plus you know we have no evidence that Buddhism had that fighting after Siddharth death
It had that fighting even before Siddhartha’s death when his brother in law Devadatta broke away to form his own group.
Mormons didn’t break out into civil war after Smith died.
Again. Having small disagreements a generation after the fake death of Jesus doesn’t prove that Jesus existed. You are goalpost moving now. You went from bitterly opposed to having literal anything but perfect harmony.
Now do you have anything better than Paul sounded a bit peeved in a letter and your claim with no evidence whatsoever that religious shishms are required for unknown reasons? Got to give you credit this is by far the worst argument I have heard for your Messiah existing. Because people argued he couldn’t be real. I am glad no one ever argues about fiction and toxic fanbases don’t exist.
Oh and for the record he didn’t write Timothy. I am sure a biblical scholar such as yourself knew that already.
It’s largely based on outdated tautology dating anything with a whiff of Gnosticism to the 2nd century which only changed up around the turn of the 21st century.
I’d happily wager with you that attitudes around 2 Timothy’s grouping with 1 Timothy and Titus (which are forgeries) won’t last another 15 years.
P.S. How many of those scholars think there was no historical Jesus?
He was still sending them money and I am not going into the Duetropaul argument since it proves nothing.
P.S. do you know what an argument from authority logical fallacy is? Especially since you are going against the grain with your dating of the Gospel of Thomas. Did you know that around 60% of polled Bible scholars believe the resurrection is a true literal historical event?
Extra-canonically he was certainly talking a lot about dank images:
Jesus said, “When you see your likeness, you are happy. But when you see your images that came into being before you and that neither die nor become visible, how much you will have to bear!”
Gospel of Thomas saying 84
[…] Jesus said to them, “When you make the two into one, […] an image in place of an image, then you will enter [the kingdom].”
Gospel of Thomas saying 22
(This was more relating to Plato’s concept of eikon and what was effectively a version of the simulation hypothesis in antiquity, but if we throw out the context it could potentially be talking about making memes.)
I’m not a biblical scholar, like at all, but isn’t that exactly the sort of thing he’d say/ do?
Clearly you have no idea what you’re talking about
Like yeah I don’t, but didn’t he curse a fig tree for not having fruit, while it wasn’t fig season?
Didn’t he get himself executed for like being offended that people were doing business at the temple?
How is that not taking shit personally and arguing with strangers?
You don’t think he’d be like coming in hot on a comment chain?
The cursing of the fig tree has echos in other Jewish literature best example is Moses hitting a rock to get it to send out water.
The temple had to do business. It wasn’t practical for everyone to bring their own animals and the coinage issue wasn’t considered a big deal. If there has been a historical Jesus (again there wasn’t) he most likely started the assault on the temple because he was trying to fulfill the OT prophecy of its destruction. Kinda like when you want sex so you give your partner a back rub.
You got to understand all the accounts of man were written multiple decades later by liars.
I’m not sure what to do with this information.
I imagine they want you to be convinced and become a Christian.
Please don’t spread misinformation .
Please don’t spread cognitive biases
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Availability_cascade
Please don’t commit link dump articles you didn’t read advocating for a viewpoint that is not supported by evidence.
Jesus didn’t exist. No one can keep their story straight about events in his life. Everyone who spoke about his life was lying and we can identify the lines via basic textual criticism. Evidence of his existence that should be here is missing.
I am sorry your Messiah was just a grift by James and Cephus but it is better to hear it late than never. Happy Saturnalia maybe spend this evening trying to find the nativity scene in the Bible, and not building a hybrid one off Matthew and Luke.
Bruh I’m not even Christian. All of the events in his life don’t have to be corroborated for him to be a real person. You for example probably haven’t had everything you’ve done recorded but you are certainly a person because there are contemporary accounts of your existence. Jesus from Nazareth didn’t have to be proven to have risen from the dead to be a real man who existed.
Having a combative attitude isn’t gonna make your point dude.
I am an ordinary person so any claims about my existence are ordinary. Even a minimum historical Jesus (I am sure you know that term without looking it up ;)) would be extraordinary claim requiring extraordinary evidence. The very first writer of the man described a celestial being, not a human, the second writer of the man recycled Elijiah.
Why don’t you tell me which part of the claim you have evidence for? So far you have listed his name and village of birth. There were other Messiah figures named Jesus both from birth and as a title. Since it means saviour. As for Nazareth, historians can’t find it. Josphius names ten towns right around it and doesn’t mention it. After hundreds of archeological digs they found a barn, a barn that they can’t even prove was standing 0 AD, only around that time period. Could easily have been built in 50AD.
Pft. Guy admits he’s not a biblical scholar then proceeds to have an opinion on the matter. Ridiculous
It’s not a bad thing to ask for clarifying questions… How the flying fuck do you think people learn things from people who are scholars/teachers/experts!? Did you never ask a single question in school or your job(s)?? How the fuck do you learn without questions?
You being upset at this is pathetic.
Oh ok
He is a fictional. The question is if the writer needs him to do it or not.
He was almost certainly not fictional.
Fictional constructs don’t end up having bitterly opposed factions splintering off within decades of their supposed death, but that’s an extremely common feature of nearly every cult organized around a historical central figure.
The specific depiction of Jesus canonized likely has many fictional elements, but the idea that there was no historical figure in the first place is pretty ludicrous.
He is almost certainly is fictional. I don’t see at all why you think it matters what people did after his supposed existence. Also not sure where you are getting bitterly opposed. Paul was sending money to the Church of Jerusalem. He argued but you don’t give free money to people you bitterly oppose. You also don’t write a letter saying how the leaders were good people. The fighting really started as Christianity moved into power and little spats made a difference. Plus you know we have no evidence that Buddhism had that fighting after Siddharth death and the Mormons didn’t break out into civil war after Smith died. Scientologists are also doing fine.
Every detail of his supposed life was pulled from literature available and was to generate a specific result. We can also see where they were taking “known” facts at the time and misrepresenting them to try to get what they want.
Corinth then later on full on deposed Rome’s appointees which led to the letter from the bishop of Rome, 1 Clement that’s almost entirely devoted to trying to damage control the schism.
You can even see some of the specific concepts that there was a schism about, such as whether there was an over-realized eschatology:
So I’m not sure where you get the notion there was one big happy family of Christian thought in Paul’s time and the later 1st century CE when literally the earliest records of Christianity we have are so concerned with competing traditions and ideas. You may be mistaking the survivorship bias of cannonical Christianity eradicating most competing thought later on for a picture of unity (as that’s what they try to project) which is why a closer read is warranted.
It had that fighting even before Siddhartha’s death when his brother in law Devadatta broke away to form his own group.
You might want to read up on the succession crisis
You might want to look into the Free Zone schisms from Scientology near and after L Ron’s death.
Again. Having small disagreements a generation after the fake death of Jesus doesn’t prove that Jesus existed. You are goalpost moving now. You went from bitterly opposed to having literal anything but perfect harmony.
Now do you have anything better than Paul sounded a bit peeved in a letter and your claim with no evidence whatsoever that religious shishms are required for unknown reasons? Got to give you credit this is by far the worst argument I have heard for your Messiah existing. Because people argued he couldn’t be real. I am glad no one ever argues about fiction and toxic fanbases don’t exist.
Oh and for the record he didn’t write Timothy. I am sure a biblical scholar such as yourself knew that already.
“Everything is permissible for me” is a small disagreement with canonical Christianity?
I wouldn’t be so sure about that.
It’s largely based on outdated tautology dating anything with a whiff of Gnosticism to the 2nd century which only changed up around the turn of the 21st century.
I’d happily wager with you that attitudes around 2 Timothy’s grouping with 1 Timothy and Titus (which are forgeries) won’t last another 15 years.
P.S. How many of those scholars think there was no historical Jesus?
He was still sending them money and I am not going into the Duetropaul argument since it proves nothing.
P.S. do you know what an argument from authority logical fallacy is? Especially since you are going against the grain with your dating of the Gospel of Thomas. Did you know that around 60% of polled Bible scholars believe the resurrection is a true literal historical event?
Extra-canonically he was certainly talking a lot about dank images:
(This was more relating to Plato’s concept of eikon and what was effectively a version of the simulation hypothesis in antiquity, but if we throw out the context it could potentially be talking about making memes.)