• sh00g@kbin.social
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    1 year ago

    The Hamas attacks were barbaric and horrific. Israel giving 1 million+ people 24 hours to leave or risk being destroyed in a bombing campaign while cutting off access to food, water, and fuel is barbaric and horrific. There is such thing as nuance, but it doesn’t take very much critical thinking to recognize that both Israel and Hamas are commiting atrocities.

    • TrismegistusMx@slrpnk.net
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      1 year ago

      It serves Israel for Hamas to exist. Everything Hamas does leads to the death of Palestinians more than Israelis.

      • Limitless_screaming@kbin.social
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        1 year ago

        And everything they don’t do changes nothing, they’re slowly dying and have been for a while now. Their public image changed nothing, and it wasn’t about to.

        • TrismegistusMx@slrpnk.net
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          1 year ago

          It wants to eliminate Palestinians, not Hamas. Hamas is the villain they use to justify their genocide.

          • mwguy@infosec.pub
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            1 year ago

            A WW1 era military could level the Gaza Strip with WW1 era munitions. Arguing that Israel, with a fully modern military and munitions system, is trying to genocide Gazans but just can’t for some reason is arguing that Israel’s military is the most incompetent military to ever have existed.

            • TrismegistusMx@slrpnk.net
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              1 year ago

              The reason they can’t just level Gaza is that when the dust clears they need to be seen as the good guys. Think for just one second, even if it hurts.

              • mwguy@infosec.pub
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                1 year ago

                After an event, proportionally the size of 44 9/11s I think they could get away with anything really.

      • Eheran@lemmy.world
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        1 year ago

        Israel protects their people, instead of investing everything into trying to destroy the enemy. Hamas even digs out water pipes to build more rockets. As per their own propaganda Video, no less. They are proud of that.

          • Spzi@lemm.ee
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            1 year ago

            A counter example: X initiates violence. Y steps in to end this, and partially succeeds. X wants to continue. Y oppresses X to prevent it.

            Not saying that resembles the Israel-Hamas conflict, just that the logic is a bit flawed. In most random street violence situations, the oppressed in the end was the person who initiated the violence.

            • TrismegistusMx@slrpnk.net
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              1 year ago

              It takes all parties to create peace, but as long as the initial assault continues there can ultimately only be one responsible party.

          • thatsage@lemmy.world
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            1 year ago

            You can easily find Hamas own videos and learn from them.

            They’re not even pretending, they outright say they’re running a jihadist war against Jews.

            • TrismegistusMx@slrpnk.net
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              1 year ago

              You can easily find videos attributed to Hamas. You can’t verify that Hamas aren’t funded by Israel. You can’t verify that Hamas are Palestinian. You also can’t blame the oppressed for any actions they take to rebel against their oppressors (If you have any integrity.)

          • mwguy@infosec.pub
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            1 year ago

            Never in history has violence been initiated by the oppressed.

            That may be the most historically inaccurate statement I’ve ever heard.

            Like what was the French and Indian war then? This statement could excuse the initiation of violence of any group in history, including the Nazis.

              • mwguy@infosec.pub
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                1 year ago

                Indians fought on both sides of that war, often against one another.

                  • mwguy@infosec.pub
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                    1 year ago

                    What? The whole reason the nations split they way they did is because they had a long history of war with one another. That’s a pretty ignorant assertion.

          • Eheran@lemmy.world
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            1 year ago

            I learned it from Hamas propaganda Videos. Those they produce and make public. Like that one showing them removing water pipes to build more rockets.

            • TrismegistusMx@slrpnk.net
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              1 year ago

              You don’t know that those videos weren’t created by the IDF as propaganda. You don’t know that Hamas isn’t entirely made up of IDF. You only know the narrative that reinforces your world view. Israel loves to do things like bomb residential areas then cry that Hamas uses human shields. They love to respond to fireworks with carpet bombs.

      • P03 Locke@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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        1 year ago

        So, why does Palestine still house and hold a high opinion over Hamas? A terrorist group just lives over there in Gaza Strip and Palestine doesn’t lift a finger to get rid of them.

        • Annoyed_🦀 @monyet.cc
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          1 year ago

          To you, me, and many of us, they’re a terrorist group, but to those who get stepped on by the Zionist for decades, who have their home bombed, who land got stolen, who families and relatives got killed, they are their only hope.

          • P03 Locke@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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            1 year ago

            To you, me, and many of us, they’re a terrorist group

            To all of the groups that matter, they are a terrorist group.

            but to those who get stepped on by the Zionist for decades, who have their home bombed, who land got stolen, who families and relatives got killed, they are their only hope.

            Then they aren’t living as a government that deserves statehood. If a terrorist group is the one leading the country, that becomes the definition of that country.

            • Annoyed_🦀 @monyet.cc
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              1 year ago

              To all of the groups that matter, they are a terrorist group.

              good way to say “they deserved to be wiped out, innocent or not”, which isn’t something shocking coming from war criminal apologist.

              If a terrorist group is the one leading the country, that becomes the definition of that country.

              Just like War mongering state of America and War Criminal state of Israel?

          • thatsage@lemmy.world
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            1 year ago

            Hamas isn’t their hope. If they were lead by a peaceful and sane govermant, instead of terrorists, Gaza would’ve looked so much better today.

            Hamas doesn’t care about Gaza and it’s people, the leaders are corrupt and living abroad, the money that’s meant for schools and services and infrastructure goes to their pockets or weapons, and the biggest prisoner of Hamas is Gaza itself.

            • Annoyed_🦀 @monyet.cc
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              1 year ago

              Easy for you to type out such comment in your own comfortable chair, but for them, if Israel didn’t force them out of their own land and treat them like sub-human for decades, they won’t resort to rely on extremist.

              Want them to make better decision? Give them their land back, pay reparation fee, rebuild their destroyed facilities, in return disband and deradicalize. It took decades for a lot of wartorn country to get back on their feet and it’s no difference here. If you truly think Israel can wipe out Hamas with their bombs and violent, then you must’ve missed what happened to Afghanistan.

              • P03 Locke@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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                1 year ago

                Afghanistan was actually doing much better than it was under Taliban control. Women had rights, and weren’t living in fear. Reforms were happening. The whole country was moving in a positive direction.

                Until Trump fucked all of that up and made a deal with the Taliban to regain control again.

              • thatsage@lemmy.world
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                1 year ago

                Israel definitely could have treated palastinians better, but not in matters of land… Israel didn’t force them out of their land. It was founded legally and went on to win territory in wars in which it was the defender and offered innocents to stay and gain citizenship.

                Later on, the palastinians didn’t agree to several 2 state proposals which Israel did agree to, thus relinquishing again the keys to their own future.

                Israel invested and invests into their infrastructure, which they don’t manage well usually, like the water treatment plans Israel transfered to them when exiting Gaza.

                Afghanistan’s story is not the same as that of Hamas and will not end the same, I hope as many innocent people of either side come out on top and have a chance at a peaceful future, with Hamas buried and gone.

                Gaza and Israel could normallize relations and Gaza could prosper.

                • Annoyed_🦀 @monyet.cc
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                  1 year ago

                  Israel didn’t force them out of their land. It was founded legally and went on to win territory in wars

                  The sheer amount of mental gymnastics here is astounding.

                  Later on, the palastinians didn’t agree to several 2 state proposals which Israel did agree to

                  I wonder why 🤔🤔🤔

          • Eheran@lemmy.world
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            1 year ago

            They are their hope? By mudding over 1’000 innocent people? Well, looks like they fucked up. But I assume this is what Hamas wanted to begin with, since they don’t care about Palestinians at all.

            • Annoyed_🦀 @monyet.cc
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              1 year ago

              Yep. Two group need to cease to exists for this war to end, Hamas and the Zionist. Both group goal is to eradicate each other, kinda like that two giant from Xenoblade Chronicle.

              • thatsage@lemmy.world
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                1 year ago

                Except the only real guilty party there is Zanza, and they do end up living peacefully with each other once Zanza is removed.

                Hamas is Zanza.

              • Eheran@lemmy.world
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                1 year ago

                Hamas are the only group that can stop this, yet here we are, they do not even release the hostages! Israel could only stop this if they are destroyed. The same way Ukraine can not end the war with Russia, only Russia can do that.

                • Annoyed_🦀 @monyet.cc
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                  1 year ago

                  Nope, because the same way as Russia vs Ukraine, Russia and Israel is the main perpetrator and the oppressor.

        • DeepFriedDresden@kbin.social
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          1 year ago

          Why did Israeli police do nothing to stop the increasing violence perpetrated by illegal Israeli Settlers attacking Palestinians, of which Palestinian police are forbidden to react to? Their cops aren’t allowed to do anything, their illegal occupants cops won’t do anything, and the majority of Israeli Jews say they dont want Palestinians to have the right to vote if they annex Gaza. A minority of Israelis support a two state solution.

          It’s not like Israel has been trying to play ball with them.

        • barsoap@lemm.ee
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          1 year ago

          Why are there still Kahanites in Israel’s government?

          Also, get rid of Hamas with what. Are you going to give them weapons to do it?

    • Sambarkjand@lemm.ee
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      1 year ago

      I don’t know if you noticed but it’s been more than 24 hours since they said that and they’re still letting them evacuate. Time to retire that talking point.

      • sh00g@kbin.social
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        1 year ago

        Sure. Except “letting them evacuate” in this case is better characterized as “continuing to expel them from their homes under threat of violence.” I’m not arguing the 24 hour time period is the atrocity, I’m arguing the act of creating a humanitarian crisis under the auspices of a military campaign effort is abhorrent.

        It’s not like we don’t have any good reporting on the matter either. The BBC for example has already been attacked because they refused to declare Hamas as terrorists (a label I agree with, for the record). [This article](BBC News - Khan Younis: A Gaza city on its knees, now with a million mouths to feed
        https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-67116403) provides some insight into the absolute horror regular Palestinians are going through right now.

    • Tygr@lemmy.world
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      1 year ago

      When Israel declared war, what do you think that meant exactly?