cross-posted from: https://lemm.ee/post/65824884
Hey everyone
We’re really sorry to say this, but lemm.ee will be shutting down on June 30, 2025.
What you need to know
As of now:
- New user registrations are disabled
- Creating new communities is disabled
What you should do:
- You can export your settings at https://lemm.ee/settings to take them with you to another instance.
- If you’re moving to another instance, consider adding a note to your lemm.ee profile with your new username. Your old profile will still be visible from other instances even after we go offline.
- Alternatively, if you want to delete your lemm.ee profile, now is the best time to do it, so the deletion can federate out before we go offline.
- If you’re one of the folks supporting us with a recurring donation, please remember to cancel it (Ko-Fi donations should have been cancelled automatically already). Our leftover funds are already enough to cover our bills for next month, so we can keep things running without any more support.
Because of how Lemmy is built, everything posted on lemm.ee will still be accessible from other instances, even after we go offline.
Why this is happening
The key reason is that we just don’t have enough people on the admin team to keep the place running. Most of the admin team has stepped down, mostly due to burnout, and finding replacements hasn’t worked out.
The sad reality is that while there are a lot of great people on Lemmy, there are also some who use the platform to attack others, stir up conflict, or actively try to undermine the project. Admins are volunteers who deal with the latter group on a constant basis, this takes a mental toll. Please understand why our admins chose to step down, and be kind to the admins on whatever instance you decide to join.
We know this sucks. We’re genuinely sorry it’s ending like this. Thank you to everyone who spent time here and helped make it better.
– lemm.ee team
You must log in or # to comment.
What’s really disappointing is that I just made my Lemm.ee account because Lemmy.One had announced they were closing down. Kinda disheartening to make a new account only for the new instance to also shutdown.
Oh so it’s your fault then. Please stop ruining instances
New phone, who dis?
NGL, I’m pretty sad to lose this handle.
I also had just joined Lemm.ee, barely over a month ago. I was really starting to enjoy it when they posted the news. Am disheartened, for sure.
That’s just life on the Internet/fediverse in general, there’s a constant churn of the small websites/instances as people inevitably burn out. You gotta be mentally prepared for it. I’m really sad since .ee was one of the few good instances that federated with the unpopular ones too
The only solution is improvements to the protocol so migrating instances is less painful. A different form of identity (key-based rather than domain based) would be cool to let us keep handles across instances
The OP has comments disabled and it didn’t seem right to not say thank you and goodbye.
To the entire team past and present at lemm.ee- Thank you for the time and resources you poured into this platform. You will undoubtedly be missed.
why are comments even disabled in the first place?
Probably because if they were enabled it would be filled with people soapboxing about their irrelevant hobbyhorses or offering to help just to keep the instance alive. Neither are useful or relevant. If people wanted the instance to survive then they should have been volunteering months ago, not at 11:59 on the Doomsday Clock.
The sad thing is that nobody knew there was a doomsday clock.
There always is. No one is getting paid to do this, they’re giving up their free time and (often) money. Leaving it to the last minute to volunteer or donate is never sustainable long-term. If people really care so much and are willing to sacrifice either, they need to be proactive rather than wait for emergency pleas for help.
On the other hand, as far as I can tell, they only called for new admins/mods 4 months ago and not since then. I agree that if you care about something, you should support it and not wait until they cry for help, but there is also a matter of being proactive and transparent about how volunteer recruitment is going (well or badly).
Completely. This feels like a major communications fail. It’s a basic technique of fundraising and mobilization: put a big ticking clock on your campaign and people will step up in time.
I think you’re missing the point. The call for new admin volunteers was stickied by the instance for an extended period. Even using an app rather than the web interface, it was stuck at the top of my feed until I hid the post.
The group of people who ignored that call to action yet would have volunteered with a follow-up post of a “big ticking clock” as it were, aren’t necessarily the type of people you want to admin an instance. Especially one as big as lemm.ee. Certainly, if any admin will do then increasing recruitment efforts makes sense.
its probably because its just an important announcement post they plan to pin for the whole month and they dont want it to get filled with people talking in it which could led to the comment derailing the discussion
… They are literally saying they don’t have admins/mods enough. You want to strain your mods? Allowing comments on that sort of post is how you do that.
it could have been a cool free 4 all like in the good old internet times xD
Yeah sure its all fun and games until people start posting csam.
then block them with your user power. i dont see the problem?
CSAM stands for Child Sexual Abuse Material (child porn under its old moniker).
I’m going to assume you didn’t know what the acronym meant because saying “just block them I don’t see the problem” to CSAM posts is very idiotic.
Yes officer, this one right here.
The problem, besides that just being gross, is that hosting csam is a very serious crime in most places. Leaving that unmoderated can very easily end with alphabet agencies from around the world shutting down lemmy instances.
And hosting CSAM is immoral.
Removed by mod
It was the first foray into the fediverse and helped wean me off reddit. Sad to see it go.
“It was the first foray”.
It’s a great concept. This should inspire others. Things can change and get better and grow.
My first foray. Typo. But the sentiment still stands.
Thank you and the admin team, past and present, for their time and care.
The settings import / export feature is extremely cool.
Reminds me of the many times I was banned from reddit for no good reason and then had to reset every one of my subs. So much easier, and just goes to back up the decentralized philosophy of lemmy.
Reddit arguably has no reason for it because if you’re banned you’re not supposed to make a new account. I would never do such a thing!
Sail into the sunset lemm.ee
You will be missed
so where do i go now?
i might make one for those. i already made a new lemmy.today, and world just in case.
thank you
you can try lemmy.today. probably best to make different accts.
I just moved to lemmy.zip.
As someone new to Lemmy, thanks for asking this. I just joined lemm.ee from a Reddit link, and I don’t know all the different flavors of the different domains.
And how? I came here due to full reddit ban not cause I knew anything about the platform and wanted in, it I do like the platform and I’m glad I was “forced” to try it. Except I didn’t, and don’t, know what instances are, why they matter beyond “decentralization” and I just picked one at random because I didn’t realize your “instance” could just be removed… if an instance can be removed/shut down it doesn’t seem like any instance is actually a safe place to go since it’s not depended on me but whoever is running it? You can lose your account no matter what. Idk if this means I should try to figure this out, which is just make a new account I think? Or if this is a sign for me to give up my last social media outlet and just be done with reddit/reddit clones in general
Unlike reddit, you can bring most of your account with you to a new instance (a different server. basically imagine each instance is its own mini-reddit, and all the mini-reddits can talk to each other).
If you go to your Account Settings page, you can export your account JSON file, which you can then import into a new instance so you can bring your subscriptions, blocks, and favorited comments/posts.
To help choose a new instance, check out this comment.
Nothing is perfect and nothing is permanent.
If you are extremely motivated to have an account that can never be pulled out from under you, you must run your own instance.
In the fediverse, its plausible to do this and still be connected to others. There are.lots of single user instances. There were some small businesses opening where you could pay someone else to do the admin work for you if you are disinclined to that kind of geekery yourself.
The best analogy is still E-mail. [email protected] can talk to [email protected], which can talk to [email protected]. Sometimes an email service shuts down - has anyone checked if yahoo still exists?
So in that case, you have to get a new mail and probably move your important stuff over. It sure sucks, but there is no good way around it, if you want to be able to choose between different services.
Imagine everyone using only gmail: what if Google decided you smell and they don’t want your business any more? What if Google decided to make every login cost $5? Or that you need to say “I love Coca Cola” to read your mail?
reddit was doing multi-account bans retroactively which was pretty much very rare unheard of. basically any old accounts that participated in the sub years ago were instantly ban if any of your other accounts were subreddit banned.
I mean, yeah, any instance could be gone at any time. Anything can disappear at any time. Don’t overthink it. Just pick a new instance at random like you did before. Export and import settings. Leave a note on your profile where your new account is. Once lemm.ee is gone, your account’s info page will forever say where your new account is. This instance shutting down doesn’t mean your old comments and posts disappear. Sure, you won’t be able to directly respond to them, but they aren’t vanishing.
It sucks, and it’s an annoyance, but it’s hardly the end of the world.
Think about if this were a non-federated platform. You’d be shit out of luck. All your posts and comments would be gone forever. All of everyone’s content from your instance would just be lost to time when the server shits down. But with federation it gets copied to other instances. It will live on there. The only time it won’t be is if someone makes a new instance after lemm.ee is gone, they won’t be able to pull in old lemm.ee stuff.
An “instance” is a server that talks to all the other Lemmy servers, where your account info and login are stored. There’s a lot of benefits to decentralization - even if one instance goes down, like lemm.ee, it doesn’t really impact the whole of Lemmy too severely. The cost of running an instance isn’t super high, which means that if an instance is being annoying about advertising or something, you can ditch it with little cost to yourself and even run your own instance if you want. A single cabal of admins can’t ruin it like Reddit (cough cough Spez) and it can be easier to curate your own experience by choosing what instances you want to ignore completely.
Any given instance is not necessarily a safe harbor, but as long as Lemmy is around, there will probably be multiple instances to choose from. The only thing you really lose is your post history - and you can link to your old account info in your new account for continuity’s sake.
think of instances, like thier own reddit clones. one clone can die and you have to make a new acc with another, apparently this cas was lack of administration/modding, or money.
but instances seems to die very quickly soon after created, thats the only thing. the instances to avoid is the extremely political ones: ml, hexbear, conservative.
Here are some servers.
Shouldn’t you be fine using lemmy.world?
I’d suggest not moving towards even more consolidation on the biggest instance. It rather defeats the point of decentralisation.
I myself am a lemm.ee refugee (just registered this new account today) and I specifically ruled world out because it benefits the health of Lemmy more to spread users and communities around.
somoene reccommended zip, ca, today.
Okay that’s so thoughtful.
world blocks piracy ones, and the problematic ones.
Ahh I see
Really nice that they’re doing a sunset period with advance warning instead of just randomly going dark. As Lemmy’s first major “shutdown” we need to accept that this sort of thing seems inevitable from time to time, maybe this can set an example and open a conversation on how to handle this sort of situation in the future. I’d hope this creates some pressure to Fediverse developers to improve portability for users (and communities!) moving between instances, maybe even some kind of immigration/emigration mode for people or communities who want to apply to transfer their account and history rather than simply sign up a new account while posting a link from their old account. Federation should be able to do better than that.
and they don’t support voyager
Voyager doesn’t support them
Damn, even if it was to be excepted with how the admin issue was evolving, it’s still sad.
But i guess the strengh of the fediverse come from the fact that such an issue can happen without impacting the entire lemmy community as a whole.
I’m just worried that the lack of moderation becomes a recurrent issue in the future of lemmy with the userbase growth and the lack of revenue.
I wish best luck for communities moderators and EE users!
Holy shit, that was unexpected.
It really wasn’t, sadly.
The site founder put in an incredible amount of work setting the place up (something like 10 support servers at US$200/mo), but also tried to be lead admin for a year+, and that’s typically an extremely tough double-job to do well on a big, popular site / place. In his various posts he sometimes talked about all the vile content and destructive users the sub-admins had to deal with on an ongoing basis, and it certainly sounds like that burned out the whole volunteer staff in the end.
From my own POV, and something I noticed from the beginning here, is that in the wake of Reddit (and other places) treating its users as assets, it was important to grow a userbase across the Lemmysphere and Fediverse with a strong community spirit. To me that means more participation, more content-creation, and more willingness to be civil and cooperate. Not that these things didn’t happen to a significant extent, but it seems like a lot of .ee users and visitors, while willing to hang out at the place, were moreso just willing to soak up the content without putting in much effort to help make the place work. Or even just being toxic and destructive, as above.
A lot more could be said and debated about the whole situation, but sites like Reddit, as draconian as they might be at times, and whatever their other flaws, have proven that they’ve been able to establish a system that works stably over the long haul.
Me, I love the idea of the FV, and for that very reason have put in almost two years of hard work in to my own project on .ee, but I’m very unsure about the long-term healthy function of the Lemmysphere in particular. More specifically, trying to migrate my project to another instance before .ee shuts down would be a herculean task AFAIK, especially with my having significant new health issues recently.
So, yeah. :/
Perhaps I wasn’t paying appropriate attention but it also seemed unexpected to me. Everywhere has a background level of “we want more mods and admins” so it gets easy to ignore, and it feels like we’ve gone straight from there to “right we’re shutting down now” without an intermediate “we’re really struggling here folk and may have to consider shutting down if it doesn’t improve”.
Yeah, fair point!
Still, as has been commented in this thread, Lemm.ee indeed called for admins at some point in order to help out, but evidently got an underwhelming response. Perhaps part of that due to the fact that Sunaurus & Ella stating right up front that it was a thankless type of job.
More specifically, trying to migrate my project to another instance before .ee shuts down would be a herculean task AFAIK, especially with my having significant new health issues recently.
I can help with that, if needed. I’m going to have to migrate my own communities in the coming weeks, so I can help with yours too.
Thanks, fellas! I guess the first need would certainly be to fully archive the community in question, i.e.: https://lemm.ee/c/eurographicnovels.
Yes, I understand it’s already and naturally backed up across the FV as a whole, but I would think that having direct backups would help for any number of reasons, especially when it came to running a new sub somewhere, being able to edit previous content as needed.
As part of that, backing up the community’s many images specifically hosted at .ee would be another priority I should think.
Also, just want to point out that the community is indeed archived at Archive.Org, but last I checked, that tends to only preserve the post / comment text.
Anyway, that’s for starters. Me, I have absolutely no idea at the moment if I’m going to be able to help run the place after migration, but at the very least I can hopefully find someone willing to do that. Anyway, I guess that’s good for starters!
Thanks, fellas! I guess the first need would certainly be to fully archive the community in question, i.e.: https://lemm.ee/c/eurographicnovels.
Hmm. Yeah, if anyone’s posted images there to the pict-rs instance on lemm.ee, those will presumably be going down too.
checks
Yeah, like, you just posted this image yesterday. Like, post text federates, but other instances won’t have copies of the images.
EDIT: Normally, though, people are going to be posting to pict-rs on their home instance, so it’s just users on lemm.ee who are going to have the problem; images posted by people elsewhere should stay up.
Also, have a look at this post: https://piefed.social/post/667044
how’d the migration work?
Have a look at this post: https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/post/45876780
From my own POV, and something I noticed from the beginning here, is that in the wake of Reddit (and other places) treating its users as assets, it was important to grow a userbase across the Lemmysphere and Fediverse with a strong community spirit. To me that means more participation, more content-creation, and more willingness to be civil and cooperate. Not that these things didn’t happen to a significant extent, but it seems like a lot of .ee users and visitors, while willing to hang out at the place, were moreso just willing to soak up the content without putting in much effort to help make the place work. Or even just being toxic and destructive, as above.
A lot more could be said and debated about the whole situation, but sites like Reddit, as draconian as they might be at times, and whatever their other flaws, have proven that they’ve been able to establish a system that works stably over the long haul.
I guess it’s not really surprising, though. The Lemmy userbase is much smaller and very skewed towards certain types of people with extremely strong opinions and low levels of tolerance for anything that goes against their worldview. I don’t think reddit is necessarily doing anything better in that regard, it just benefits from having such a massive userbase filled with all kinds of people. The toxicity and off-topic intrusions of political/culture war stuff get drowned out over there, whereas here you’ll frequently see threads where 90% of the comments are arguing about things that are completely irrelevant to the actual topic because so much of userbase has an activist mindset that is always itching for a fight.
I don’t think reddit is necessarily doing anything better in that regard,
I’d say the big, honking difference with Reddit is that there’s a team of paid admins and staff to handle so much of the chores and unsavory occurrences that the volunteer admins & mods on the Lemmysphere have to do on their own. Also, their software is years ahead, and I strongly suspect has many more out-of-the-box tools than Lemmy has on the admin side. It’s certainly that way for the mod side, I can attest.
reddit has admins, AI moderations, aggressive filters, and COMPLIcit mods in many subs to do the policing.
the auto-removal and auto-bans take much pressure off of reddit admins and mods, regardless if you were in violation of policies or not.
Yup, good point.
Not that these things didn’t happen to a significant extent, but it seems like a lot of .ee users and visitors, while willing to hang out at the place, were moreso just willing to soak up the content without putting in much effort to help make the place work.
Blaming the community for that is not fair. It takes only a few rotten fruit to spoil the whole basket. Even if 99% of your userbase are model netizens who are supportive and only make positive contributions, the whole system can be brought down by a few dedicate trolls/losers.
We need to build effective filtering mechanisms to get rid of abuse/spam and we need to maybe bring back the idea of Web of Trust. It’s too easy to create an account and start polluting the fediverse.
Yeah, every time there is a post on the topic, moderators say that the tools they have are insufficient.
It’d be great to have some community focus on that going forward, whether through direct Lemmy changes or creating better bot mod tools. I’m not in a position to contribute right now but maybe in a few months.
There is a subset of Lemmy that absolutely hates any idea of automod tools because it reminds them too much of issues they had with Reddit. But as Lemmy grows (and given it’s volunteer nature) it feels inescapable at some point.
Blaming the community for that is not fair.
I’m not blaming the community. Things are what they are, including human behavior.
What I did was to state what I think is and was necessary for the FV to survive robustly in the long term, and in my opinion it just wasn’t happening adequately, at least for .ee, and maybe it’s a problem for the FV as a whole, too. You’d have to see what other major instance admins had to say, I guess…
We can not change “human behavior”, so I don’t see how/why we should expect things to “be different at .ee” compared to anywhere else.
Unfortunately, that’s not what I’m talking about, either.
What I’m talking about is something like a sufficient, critical mass needed to help .ee (and any other place) survive in the long run. Two years ago I thought there was a real opportunity and possibility based on what the Reddit execs were publicly doing… how many users it both pissed off and motivated. That in turn brought about a burst of user energy, directly reflected by the significant migration to FV, which of course included participation, and at best, valuable content-creation, curation, useful posts & comments, and responsible moderation. That was a significant, known movement, and IMO a positive one, even if it wasn’t going to last indefinitely.
As a personal example of a ‘motivated user,’ I saw the need for a certain community which was nowhere-else present across the FV, and decided to create it. Over the past two years I’ve populated it with 400+ posts, most of them in the form of mini-articles. Other people also chipped in here and there, and there have been healthy comments and subscribers to sort of flesh the whole thing out over time.
For the most part it’s been a fun (if sometimes extremely frustrating) little hobby, but it’s still basically a one-man show, despite almost 2yrs and 1,210 subscribed accts. Point is-- at the end of the day it’s been a small project that I thought worth maintaining as both a thank you to .ee and a tribute to the FV as a whole. Lemm.ee didn’t necessarily need that kind of contribution from more than a handful of users, but as said above, it needed a certain critical mass to make it work across the server as a whole, and a minimum of posters contributing vile content or simply being disruptive assholes.
At one time I thought community spirit (for what that’s worth) would kind of tilt things in a long-term sustainable direction. But it seems I was mistaken, and thus we have the announcement today. IMO I’m not pointing fingers; I’m observing.
At one time I thought community spirit (for what that’s worth) would kind of tilt things in a long-term sustainable direction.
Community is not enough. I wrote that in 2022 with Twitter and Mastodon in mind, but the same principle still applies for Reddit vs Lemmy.
Lots of people say they want to “stick it to the man” but very few are actually going to put in the work and/or money required to actually succeed.
Weirdly enough, community might actually be enough, but the Fediverse doesn’t really have much in the way of communities. As I think you yourself point out elsewhere, the Fediverse is lacking the connective tissue of shared ideology, goals, or even interests. It’s also both too large to create the familiarity that binds people socially, while also being too small to sustain itself off a donation model that makes sure there are professional admins and server mods. It’s too big to be a hobby, and too small to be a job.
Aping the aesthetic of commercial social media is a significant issue here, because form follows function, and the function of commercial social media is not community, but convincing end-users to be content generators. People on Reddit and Twitter are accustomed to an endless stream of input generated by nameless, faceless entities that they don’t give two shits about, with some celebrities and internet-famous people interjecting from time to time. That requires tens of millions of users fighting for fleeting attention from fickle consumers. We have tens of thousands of people who – as far as I can tell, based on the types and volume of posts – are mostly interested in consuming, not fighting for attention.
These are not the people who fund these kinds of endeavours. Neither group is – the content generators are no more interested in paying to get attention than the content consumers are to give it. So, without the firm social ties that motivate keeping the lights on, there is only burnout for the few who are willing to materially support the place, and gradual decay for everyone else.
I think somebody shoukd do an academic study on Lemmy, how it differs from Reddit, its weaknesses, and why it might be failing. So that there is a definitive cause to its weakness that can be pointed to for anyone willing to give it another shot.
Secondly, I think it might be a good idea for the admins of the servers to have a video call. This will make the (at least admin) community feel much more personal in a way that comment threads cannot and will lead to a stronger sense of community. Actually I’m impressed that Lemmy as a project has made it this far without the developers having ever been able to plan the project together in a group.
How is this failing? If lemm.ee was a traditional forum it’d be over, but because of federation everything lives on.
Ahh, this is really sad. Lemm.ee was always an instance that shined brightly, and @[email protected] has helped me out a couple of times.
Sad day indeed.
So long, and thanks for all the fish! o7
I literally just woke up and opened Lemmy to see this. As a lemm.ee user this is sad news but I respect the decision of all those involved as they navigate this
same
Sad to hear, had a very inspired name and the admin was very strong with hosting tech. Unfortunately however a generic instance with lax federation rules and no solid ideology, is a recipe for burning out your admins. The owner seemingly losing interest in lemmy also didn’t help.
Yeah I agree, that model just isn’t sustainable. Moderation is one of the most challenging aspects of running a Lemmy instance, and deciding to never defederate because of “free speech” and “user choice” just makes the job that much worse. It feels almost inevitable that instances like this will ultimately succumb to this type of burnout.
Really I feel like we should stop talking about “defederation” as an abstract concept without context or reason since it makes it seem like defederation happens for no reason. Which is almost never the case. We don’t talk about other forms of moderation that way, and if someone did it would be clear they’re one of those free speech trolls, so why do we so casually talk about defederation this way? Seriously, defederation, like any other moderation is 100% necessary, because humans are evil pieces of shit. Not all of them, but many are. That’s why we ban people, that’s why we defederate the most rotten places in the fediverse. Saying “just block users” is counterproductive. You know what Lemmy would look like if that’s all we offered here? Probably a more extreme version of 4chan, since those are the people that dominate when moderation isn’t enforced.
Agreed
shouldve kept the nsfw, ml and hexbear instance seperate when they had the chance.
Ironically, that lemm.ee still federated with .ml, hexbear, and lemmygrad was one of the primary factors for me deciding to move my account there from lemmy.world. I want to be a part of an instance that federates with those communities and then I can just block individual communities and accounts on a case-by-case basis from my account.
ml and hexbear were getting problematic for me so i blocked them. and the users there were infesting other posts with thier rants.
This is sad, but also not unexpected. I’d noticed a lack of engagement from their admin team for a while, and very often they wouldn’t respond to reports. Still sad to see them go, and also slightly worrying since there are a lot of active communities on there and many many users.
they were asking for admins right around the time i joined lemmy, after a reddit purge.
