• Tiltinyall@beehaw.org
    link
    fedilink
    arrow-up
    7
    arrow-down
    6
    ·
    edit-2
    18 days ago

    There’s no red line that Americans can VOTE on. We don’t get to vote on how America goes to war, period. You really want to frame this in the context that your actually doing something other than undermining a fair election. You’ve gone way past the red line in your support of Trump.

    • Cowbee [he/him]@lemmy.ml
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      8
      arrow-down
      3
      ·
      18 days ago

      Sure there is, you can vote Green or PSL. If you disapprove of the Democrats but will never not vote for them, you’re the same as the rabid supporters of Zionism that vote for the Dems, materially. Are you looking to join a Leftist party, try to destabilize the system and establish Socialism? If not, it seems like you’re just supporting the status quo and not lifting a finger no matter how bad it gets.

      No, I don’t support Trump, that’s why I support leftist candidates and advocate for people to abandon the Dems and Reps.

      • lengau@midwest.social
        link
        fedilink
        arrow-up
        8
        arrow-down
        5
        ·
        18 days ago

        you can vote Green or PSL

        You sure can if you believe that making an insignificant point in a ballot box is worth more than the actual lives of people who would die because of a Trump administration but not under a Harris one. But if you want to make an actual difference. the ballot box is one of the very few times you need to hold your nose and do the uncomfortable thing of choosing liberalism over fascism.

        But if you’re okay with fascism, sure. Go and make your vote a spoiler that helps the fascists win. I’m sure the people who die because doctors who were scared to provide medically necessary abortions will be grateful that you did the morally superior, but entirely ineffective, thing.

        • Cowbee [he/him]@lemmy.ml
          link
          fedilink
          arrow-up
          7
          arrow-down
          3
          ·
          18 days ago

          You sure can if you believe that making an insignificant point in a ballot box is worth more than the actual lives of people who would die because of a Trump administration but not under a Harris one. But if you want to make an actual difference. the ballot box is one of the very few times you need to hold your nose and do the uncomfortable thing of choosing liberalism over fascism.

          You can vote for fascism if that’s what you want, I reject it.

          But if you’re okay with fascism, sure. Go and make your vote a spoiler that helps the fascists win. I’m sure the people who die because doctors who were scared to provide medically necessary abortions will be grateful that you did the morally superior, but entirely ineffective, thing.

          You’re voting fascism in, the Dems have failed for half a century to codify abortion rights because they don’t care.

          • lengau@midwest.social
            link
            fedilink
            arrow-up
            5
            arrow-down
            5
            ·
            18 days ago

            You can vote for fascism if that’s what you want, I reject it.

            You’re literally making the choice to put fascism in power. I’m trying to stop you from making the same mistake I made in 2016.

              • lengau@midwest.social
                link
                fedilink
                arrow-up
                6
                arrow-down
                5
                ·
                18 days ago

                Words have definitions. Harris, for everything I don’t like about her, is a liberal. Not a fascist. Trump, on the other hand, is a fascist.

                The choices here are simple: fascism (Trump), not-fascism (Harris), or “I really don’t care, do u?”

                Why are you encouraging people to do things that will make it more likely for fascists to win and destroy what little leftist organizing there is in America? The only rational conclusion is that you want fascism. But you keep avoiding that question. Is it because you’re taking a page out of the alt-right playbook?

                • Cowbee [he/him]@lemmy.ml
                  link
                  fedilink
                  arrow-up
                  5
                  arrow-down
                  2
                  ·
                  18 days ago

                  You wouldn’t know fascism if you lived in Nazi Germany. Read the first chapter of Blackshirts and Reds, fascism is just Capitalism in decay, and neither the DNC nor GOP are capable of stopping that.

                  • lengau@midwest.social
                    link
                    fedilink
                    arrow-up
                    5
                    arrow-down
                    4
                    ·
                    18 days ago

                    Once again avoiding the question and making personal attacks instead.

                    Your words imply that you think I believe having Harris as president will fix things. I don’t. What I do believe is it will slow the decline, hopefully enough for us to create ways to escape capitalism without having fascists commit more genocides than they already are. This is known as “harm reduction.” It’s a complex theory by which one takes actions to reduce the harm done with immediate actions when there’s no immediate action that one can take to improve things. The ballot box in 2024 is not the time for a revolution, for said revolution would fail miserably, leaving us worse off. The ballot box in 2024 is the time for harm reduction.

              • HatchetHaro@lemmy.blahaj.zone
                link
                fedilink
                arrow-up
                5
                arrow-down
                4
                ·
                18 days ago

                you keep saying “vote” as if it means the same thing in a ranked-choice voting system and a first-past-the-post voting system.

                newsflash: you’re not making the difference you claim you’re making. if anything, you’re making it worse. congratulations! good job! you did it! you get a good star!

                • Cowbee [he/him]@lemmy.ml
                  link
                  fedilink
                  arrow-up
                  5
                  arrow-down
                  1
                  ·
                  18 days ago

                  Not sure what you’re getting at here, RCV or FPTP, doesn’t make a difference, electoralism is useless.

        • Cowbee [he/him]@lemmy.ml
          link
          fedilink
          arrow-up
          6
          arrow-down
          2
          ·
          18 days ago

          Wake up commie tool.

          Wake up, liberal! Lol

          You and everyone else here with an agenda ARE supporting the status quo

          TIL advocating people to join revolutionary parties and overthrow the system is “supporting the status quo,” while voting for the establishment parties is “punk.” Is this a Twilight Zone episode?

          Do you think you’re voting socialism in with a Jill Stein vote?

          Nah, just voting against genocide and Imperialism. Voting doesn’t really matter anyways

          Because I guarantee you that’s not what she’s running for.

          Cool.

          You know very well that you can’t go into an American polling station and vote for anti-establishment policies.

          I can and I will.

          The spoiler vote comes down to ONE real world mechanic. Undermining the popular candidate’s vote.

          Can’t be a spoiler if I would never vote for a genocidal monster anyways. Harris is spoiling her own votes.

            • Cowbee [he/him]@lemmy.ml
              link
              fedilink
              arrow-up
              6
              arrow-down
              1
              ·
              edit-2
              18 days ago

              I’ve witnessed you excusing a lot of fascism and genocide in the name of communism.

              Please explain exactly what you’re talking about here, that’s BS.

              Me thinks you have the time to shit post because there is nothing else meaningful in your life other than what can be perceived as edgy and super hip.

              You literally said “methinks,” pot meet kettle. I shitpost because it’s quick and work has uptime and downtime.

    • umbrella@lemmy.ml
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      4
      ·
      edit-2
      16 days ago

      then is the system fair? is it really democracy whats happening here?

      societies generally throw away the rules and stop relying on these institutions when it becomes clear they arent actually doing anything for us. why arent us?

      • PolandIsAStateOfMind@lemmy.ml
        link
        fedilink
        arrow-up
        3
        ·
        edit-2
        17 days ago

        why arent us?

        That’s actually prety obvious after reading Marx: the system still works as intended for whom it was intended to work, namely for bourgeoisie and their lackeys. The contradictions aren’t yet big enough to cause the overthrowing of it. Liberals, people who we are trying to convince here to open their eyes and see that they are voting for genocide, for actual mass extermination of entire people, actually (with small exceptions) already have their eyes open - they just don’t see anything undesirable in the picture: brown people half of world away and their deaths are perfectly ignorable for them, their lives are pretty comfortable and they just want to stop reading uncomfortable opinions and get back to brunch.

    • NauticalNoodle@lemmy.ml
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      5
      arrow-down
      1
      ·
      edit-2
      18 days ago

      "You really want to frame this in the context that your actually doing something other than undermining a fair election. "

      I find that arguing a person must vote for one of two pro-genocide parties already undermines your idea of a “fair election.” What primary even nominated Harris as the Democrat candidate? -Not that our primary systems is particularly representative of a “fair election” system, either. I just don’t remember when these were candidates voted on.