Sounds like the proper answer is to legalize the drugs, nationalize the cartel’s, and call the US drug policy out for the farce it is.
nationalize the cartels
Something tells me that the cartels wouldn’t just let the government do this, and then you’re right back to square one where the Mexican government is fighting against them.
nationalize the cartel
You and what army?
Mexico is pretty socially conservative, I think. I can’t see that happening.
They are, and normally I’d agree with you, but they just recently legalized abortion and that SHOCKED me. So who knows?! Mexico might do anything!
Technically, Mexico has had only two presidents from a right-wing party. Before, they were from the centrist party. The current president is a very well known leftist.
The country was bombarded with religion for centuries, so maybe you are thinking of that, but even so, the majority support a version of religion that mixes a “social concern for the poor and political liberation for oppressed peoples” with spirituality. It is similar to the recent declarations of Pope Francis about Marxists and Christians having a common goal It is called liberation theology.
Also, Mexico tried to legalize drugs back in 1940. It was promoted by a psychiatrist that informed the government that substance abuse was a mental disorder, which was very progressive for the era. Here is the story.
Of course, if you dig deeper, you’ll know the United States basically coerced Mexico into criminalizing drugs again.
Around half the population still supports drug legalization, even after years of propaganda. The commenter below was shocked about abortion legalization. Abortion is legal in many places. Same-sex marriage is also legal, even in some more right-leaning states. A couple years ago, a transgender clinic with free care was opened in Mexico City. Similarly, free healthcare and many other welfare initiatives such as free education (including universities) are common and not negotiable for the average Mexican.
So, yeah, I guess you’ll find homophobic old people, religious nuts, or lately, U.S.-influenced right-wing supporters, but Mexico is overall progressive as I see it. Even historically:
Slave abolition was one of the first things Mexico did as an independent country, around 1810-1817. The first black president in 1829. Safe place for U.S. slaves to escape and live as free people during the 19th century. First native (indigenous) president in 1858. The Constitution has been protecting native populations’ rights since 1917. During the 20th century, there were big movements in favor of socialism (e.g., agrarian socialists called zapatistas, or students’ movements in the National Autonomous University of Mexico). The list goes on… The first woman president is probably happening this year.
I hope this puts things into perspective, and sorry for infodumping!
Thank you, I have been infodumped. Did you know that Amlo has also been pretty upfront about his opposition to feminism?
Look, I have no issue with Mexico specifically, but let’s not pretend being economically leftist is the same thing as being enlightened on social issues. Or even that being enlightened on something like race means that you have cool ideas about gender.
Legalize fentanyl?
The reason fentanyl is so prevalent is because it’s easy to smuggle. The reason it’s so deadly is it’s hard to accurately dose. Legalization immediately solves both of those problems.
How many bus full of Mexicans must get slaughtered before he will fight them on behalf of Mexicans?
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Mexican police went to America to be trained by their military. When police were sent back, they abandoned the government and became one of the most vicious and capable cartels on the planet.
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If I was a rouge security agency who wanted to smuggle drugs into the US to fund secret, illegal and immoral wars around the world, I’d use a cartel just like that one.
They received the imperialism masterclass.
I’m aware. And I think that’s a US cultural thing not neoliberal. Most of Europe wouldn’t contribute to the weapon issue if they were next to Mexico.
But on the main topic, sure there is some crazy footage but he still is using a padded stick.
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All NATO weapons sent to Ukraine are 100% accounted for and would never end up in the hands of criminals (the fascist Ukrainian state excluded). Nope, nothing to see here. Just peaceful Europe.
Big yikes. Russia is a facist, terror state and no amount of finger pointing and projection will change that.
You have literally 0 evidence for that claim. And to send weapons to Europe then back to Mexico would be a lot of work.
Much more likely its regular old US military corruption or weapon manufacturer corruption along with smuggling on the border.
I didn’t say anything about Russia. Don’t change the subject.
A report released in January by the Pentagon Inspector General’s office found that the Defense Department failed to conduct proper end-use oversight on more than $1 billion worth of military equipment — nearly forty thousand weapons — sent to Ukraine.
https://jacobin.com/2024/03/ukraine-us-weapons-defense-department
Much more likely its regular old US military corruption or weapon manufacturer corruption along with smuggling on the border.
It may be the USA sending the weapons, but its with the backing of Ukraine’s EU neighbors, part of NATO, who completely support them.
Need to be the akshually guy here. Russia is a deeply authoritarian state which has gotten a lot more authoritarian post war. However, it isn’t fascist yet.
Yeah maybe it isn’t considered to be yet. However it’s pretty rich to hear pro Russian people calling Ukraine fascists as Russia continues move towards fascism.
True
The tankies love to slurp up Russian propaganda that Ukraine are fascists and that’s why Russia are the good guys. If Russia isn’t fascist then I don’t know which country is, but if there were a scale then Russia is significantly closer to fascism than Ukraine.
It really seems like he has been fighting them, at least significantly more than previous presidents
How is this “fight” being represented? I ask, because in more than one occasion he’s been seen being close to El Chapo’s mother, do you mean he’s “fighting” cartels by negotiating with them? Or does this fight mean rather things like shouting “more hugs, less shootings”, or his menacing “I’ll tell on you to your mothers!” to the cartels?
Fighting them is gonna cause way more bus loads to die then just leaving them be. The cartels aren’t evil psychopaths who kill for fun, they know violence is bad for business. The only downside to leaving them alone is they’ll send more drugs to the u.s which isn’t Mexico’s problem.
I don’t believe that. Other Central and South American countries have had success meeting the cartels head on.
Sure some short term death spikes but the long term result is a drastic reduction in violent deaths.
"Some of you are going to die… But that is a sacrifice, I am willing to make."
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You make it sound like I’m a dictator forcing people into a war.
I’m just being pragmatic. They have a large military tasked with protecting their citizens. Some of the Cartels are very much arguably terrorist organization. Indiscriminately murder and torture people in a very public way in order to scare others.
Fighting them would probably be painful at first but it would make the country a safer place in the end.
Not your call to make or even think about advocating for, ESPECIALLY not in the year 2024, gringo; continually talking like it is just outs you as a yankee chauvinist. Put your money where your mouth is and fight 'em yourself; at least even the fascist redditors that went to bat for Ukraine actually flew out rather than sitting back from a well-conditioned suburb like a FIVE-EYES armchair general.
Well, some of 'em at least. Packwatch.
Ok you got a serious cass of brain rot. I guess this is what I get for replying to a .ml tanky. Calls me a Gringo to just dismiss everything I said. Real insightful.
No shit it’s not my call to make, I’m not a Mexican politician. However this is a English forum discussing the topic. Just because I’m an American doesn’t mean I shouldn’t be able to talk about a topic. In fact Cartels and America is pretty intertwined. As is Mexico and America. I also have family in Mexico. And so do a very, very large percentage of Americans.
Not really sure why you are so adamant on defending the Cartels. Unless your anti American fog is so bad that you can’t see past the fact I’m American.
Just because I’m an American doesn’t mean I shouldn’t be able to talk about a topic.
That’s where you’re wrong kiddo! 🤭
You really think I’m gonna side with genocidal Amerikan suburbanites on any geopolitical conflict after the last twenty years of Anglo bullshit inflicted upon the world at large? Ion’t believe shit you just said. Physically can’t.
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What, so you can do to Mexico what Israel is doing to Palestine? Stay within your own borders, genocider.
Wait really? Hey China, this guy says it’s okay if you go bomb Washington! Please we’re dying out here, hurry up
In June 2023, he said of one drug gang that had abducted 14 police officers: “I’m going to tell on you to your fathers and grandfathers,” suggesting they should get a good spanking.
Didn’t expect to read that in an AP article.
If there’s a better policy that helps Mexico as a whole which isn’t what the US wants, I’d love to hear it. Something tells me “not fighting drug cartels” isn’t it.
Legalising and taxing all drugs.
That wouldn’t help
The problem isn’t drug use in Mexico, the problem is drugs going to the US
Yes to the first part but what do you think would happen to the American drug market if they did that?
I don’t forsee mass immigration of Americans to Mexico
Neither do I. I’m not sure of your point?
That legalization of drugs in Mexico isn’t going to get rid of cartels
That is very obvious in my first comment where I say it won’t help
Okay but you are aware that you just declared it wouldn’t help, despite evidence to the contrary right?
https://www.sandiego.edu/news/detail.php?_focus=84160
It cuts into their profits given them less clout and less reason to kill each other. As such, it will help, as can be seen with the example of weed.
Edit: in fact, the only reason drugs remain illegal at all is because some very wealth and powerful people make too much money from it remaining so. Well, that and so the CIA can fund illegal wars around the world.
There will still be people to sell to in the US
Thats literally the point I’m making. I don’t get what you don’t get here.
@ILikeBoobies @undergroundoverground
Mexico is on my short list of places to move if homelessness gets to close to me. But for no other reason.
I think we were talking about homeless and drug addicts moving there
Adding to your comment, I think they should have different percentages of taxing as well. For example heroin should be taxed way higher than cannabis.
What makes you think you know what is better for Mexico gringo?
I’m judging from the back benches like everyone else here. I know enough to say “policy declared by Mexico’s president” is not necessarily equal to “the best policy for Mexico.”
I thought you and yours were twoo believuhs in democracy, what’s good guero
The average American mind really can’t conceive of a situation where additional militarization wouldn’t solve the problem. Every single conflict. Everywhere there’s instability. They can only think of one solution: send the drones/missiles/troops
When your very existence is a hammer, everyone looks like a nail ig.
Mexico should build a wall and get the US to pay for it and Make Mexico Great Again.
Oh, wait…
Operation Reciprocity when?
LOL, I feel that one. That novel is where I learned the word.
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USA can’t even fix the drug trade domestically. Hint: we’re complicit.
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No one can “clear them out”, even if the u.s. army came in and killed every last cartel member, the demand for drugs would still remain and a new cartel would pop up as soon as the u.s. leaves. It would basically be Afghanistan all over again, a bunch of people will die, trillions of dollars will be spent only to have it all go to waste as soon as we leave.
Violence can’t solve the underlying social issues causing these groups to form.
You can only win the war on cartels, if you kill the demand for (illegal) drugs first. Then they will go away on their own.
You are just fighting symptoms otherwise.
You can only win the war on cartels, if you kill the demand for (illegal) drugs first. Then they will go away on their own.
I like your take kid, but unfortunately you need to web search “cartel avocados”, or “cartel limes”.
There’s demand for illegal drugs in the entire world. Only Mexico is weak (and pathetic) enough to let themselves be ruled by loser drug dealers.
The best solution would be the Vetinari solution - legalise the cartels, drop all cases against them, and leave them alone. In return, they must maintain law and order within their ranks, help the government catch unregulated gangsters, stop attacks on civilians, and pay tax.
I don’t think partnering with the cartels is a good idea. They already do what they want why would they take orders from the government.
The backing of the state is the biggest prize any criminal can get. Why do you think many pirates became privateers? And why do billionaires buy and bribe politicians? Now this is definitely not a good thing, but in the circumstances it might be the least bad option.
The difference is pirates lose to the navy. The cartels can stand up to the Mexican government and make their life hell if they try crack down on their activities.
Yes, Mexico will have to give them pretty significant concessions, which is definitely a problem. But at least they’ll stop shooting up busses full of civilians.
Right now, you might be the only person on .works who doesn’t sound like a slavering, blood-thirsty ghoul. Honestly and sincerely, keep that shit up.
Time for Bukele to conquer mexico and bring order there.
He is a demagogue through and through, all his term has been a joke and he has been fluffed up by his minions telling him what a wonderful man he is. Barf!
Real State Department-poisoned take for someone who claims to not be in the US.
I have the feeling you were born and raised in the US and have never experienced life outside your own town/ city and just spew your opinion about places and situations you know absolutely nothing about. So let me enlighten your narrow anglo vision a bit:
Have you ever lived through something like what is described in the article? Have you ever experienced what a narcoestado entails? Have you ever been in a protest along searching mothers outside Palacio Nacional because ten thousand people disappeared in your country due to organized crime for this fool to keep having breakfast saying “they only want to destabilize my regime” and not even acknowledge your presence? Have you ever been blackmailed and had to pay organized crime to keep your business open for this president to say “abrazos, no balazos” ( hugs, not bullets)? Has anyone from your family been kidnapped for ransom money? If so, did you get help from governement agencies? With all of the above, how would you feel about your president saying the things in the article? I have experienced all of the above scenarios so kindly, stfu.
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I’ve put my boots on the soil of five different countries in my lifetime. Been to half the states in the Continental United States, too; not sure how it takes travelling the literal world to know that sending Amerikan troops and guns into a sovereign nation is always a shit idea when it’s the State Department doing it; but… Iunno. “Debating” you is gonna be just a performative waste of my time, so I consider everything you say cap from genesis.
I have the feeling you were born and raised in the US and have never experienced life outside your own town/ city and just spew your opinion about places and situations you know absolutely nothing about.
He is a demagogue through and through,
You are basically a child
