Booo! Use Calvin & Hobbes instead of this fascist shitstain.
Show me the meme generator I can use for that and I’ll do it
https://imgflip.com/memegenerator/482493120/Calvin--Hobbes-change-my-mind
Here you go sir. Just for future reference.
@[email protected] you could edit the OP and replace the image
Thx but I shouldn’t. It wouldn’t have all those downvotes
Absolutely proprietary.
So, I’m pretty much always out of the loop. What the hell did this guy do to get that label?
Ooooh boy… This is Steven Crowder. Not only has he shown multiple times to hold far right views and platforming people who identify as white supremacists (most notably Stefan Malynuex and the guy who founded the proud boys) he has also been shown on camera abusing his wife.
He is anti-semitic, anti-abortion, anti-divorce (specifically so he can control his wife more), and very pro-gun and pro-white people.
Other than that he’s just another great example of a failed entertainer turning to the right wing griftiverse in order to make money.
What a fucking loser…
He’s a right-wing podcaster and meatspace video troll.
His sole piece of merchandise reads “Socialism is for F*gs.” Verbatim.
He claims it says “figs.”
That asshole doesn’t deserve a meme, cmm.
Just use Calvin.
Seriously! I really don’t want to see this nazi fuckface any more.
Which meme generator do you suggest?
Photopea - free browser Photoshop
I mean, we are talking free software here, so how about one posted to Lemmy the other day: https://github.com/Fredolx/meme-maker
You should donate to free software you like because you like it.
____________________________________Change my mind.
But I don’t want to change your mind
We should stop using memes of a hateful and abusive douche
Just curious, who is this guy, sounds like you knew about the original picture? I’ve been curious
steven crowder, a far-right talking head who moves in the same circles as Ben Shapiro, Jordan Peterson, etc. if rush limbaugh was vader then crowder is kylo ren.
Do you mean: failed comedian, and wife abuser Steven Crowder? That Steven Crowder?
That is a great description, okay fuck that guy. Thank you
He also abused his wife a bit.
That video was hard to watch
Why?
And I do mean that honestly, it’s not like he’s empowered by people making memes of him. He receives no benefit, there is no gain. If I used Hitler in a meme because he made a funny face, that isn’t an endorsement of his actions or beliefs, sometimes a meme is just a meme.
I know you weren’t asking me, but to chime in, it’s safer to say that the circumstances of memeing are actually way more complex than we give credit. I’d argue that it’s rarely the case that a meme is just a meme. Situations where an event or a person becomes a meme can be totally misinterpreted, reinterpreted or otherwise change from reality. Memes are used tools, many times as propaganda, and who is in a meme possibly, does have an effect. Memeing is actually a big complex part of the human experience! Especially since proliferation of the internet.
Anyway, it’s interesting to think about.
With how few pixels left of his face this has, is it really still of this douche?
there is plenty open source software, that you can buy. There are many modes:
- you buy the support (redhead)
- you buy the long-term-support (ubuntu)
- you pay for backports to old releases (keycloak iirc)
- there is a open source version, and you can pay for enterprise features and hosting (gitlab)
- there is an open source version, and you pay for customization (star office, iirc)
and my personal favorit:
- you pay a random developer to submit pullrequests for bugs that are relevant to you
I just woke up and never heard of redhead and immediately thought, “Damn is that why I struck out with that girl?”
This is all true, but it’s interesting how people often forget another simple option: the software is commercial - it is simply sold on some website/store. Just like you can buy the game Mindustry on Steam, but it is Libre Software and even though you can get the build for free on GitHub and its itch.io page, people still pay for the Steam version. I wonder why people forget about this option, since it’s probably the simplest one.
Of course, Steam is a proprietary, unethical platform, so I’m just using it as an example - I’m not saying we should sell there.
Tbf, of all unfair platforms, steam is one of the fairest. Humane at least.
Is it? On GOG you can download games without installing their proprietary client (there is also a libre alternative called Heroic Games Launcher, but that’s made by the community). Itch has a libre client and it’s also optional. Both those platforms don’t put DRM in games, unlike Steam.
Steam has forced updates. This means that game developers can push an update that for example deletes content from your game and as far as I know, you can’t really refuse it.
On a page of every game that is sold on Steam, you will see text that says “Buy”. But I’m pretty sure their ToS says that you are only renting games from them. So they are misleading their users.
That’s why I said “one of the fairest” and not “the fairest one”. There’s a whole lot of what steam does and other companies won’t ever do, for instance, Proton. I am forever thankful for it especially, since it motivated me to give linux the second chance. Not to say, that this particular technology turned the whole OS table around.
Steam is not perfect by any means, but people behind it offering quite a fair deal both for the devs and especially for customers. There’s basically no alternatives, bc steam has so much more to it than just storing your game library and being a game vendor.
On a page of every game that is sold on Steam, you will see text that says “Buy”. But I’m pretty sure their ToS says that you are only renting games from them. So they are misleading their users.
Not actually owning games sucks, but find me a digital marketplace that doesn’t say that you’re only “renting” them or some other bullshit. Steam doesn’t call it renting, rather, I quote, “As a Subscriber you may obtain access to certain services, software and content available to Subscribers or purchase certain Hardware”, where the subscriber is the word to call any user that has a steam account, nothing less nothing more: “You become a subscriber of Steam (“Subscriber”) by completing the registration of a Steam user account.” https://store.steampowered.com/subscriber_agreement/#1
Basically, this wording is a backdoor for them, in case their servers will be shut down and they won’t be physically able to provide any game files. Yes, it opens some ways to exploit this, but unlike some other companies like Ubisoft, Valve never seem to use it this way. Also, torrents do exist, and guess what, they’re DRM free, just as you like it, I assume. That’s actually exactly why they should exist, imo: to preserve things.
Valve didn’t invent Proton. As far as I understand, it’s just a fork of WINE. I think the only difference is that it contains fixes for Steam versions of games. For non Steam games everyone uses WINE. I’m sure Proton is convenient for Steam users, though.
Not actually owning games sucks, but find me a digital marketplace that doesn’t say that you’re only “renting” them or some other bullshit.
Since GOG and itch.io give you DRM-free offline installers of games, I believe that you do own the games that you buy there. I haven’t read their ToS, though. It is possible that they say the same thing.
Steam doesn’t call it renting, rather, I quote, “As a Subscriber you may obtain access to certain services, software and content available to Subscribers or purchase certain Hardware”, where the subscriber is the word to call any user that has a steam account, nothing less nothing more: “You become a subscriber of Steam (“Subscriber”) by completing the registration of a Steam user account.” https://store.steampowered.com/subscriber_agreement/#1
Thanks for finding the exact quote. They didn’t use that word, but to me it sounds like renting. You have access to software as long as you are a subscriber. But I probably wouldn’t mind this if their games didn’t have DRM. Then, if at some point you stopped being a subscriber, you would still be able to play your games (at least the ones you’ve downloaded). Another interesting thing is that they can ban you for selling your Steam account. But before Steam became popular, it was usually possible to sell used games.
Also, torrents do exist, and guess what, they’re DRM free, just as you like it, I assume. That’s actually exactly why they should exist, imo: to preserve things.
The point is that DRM is unethical. I refuse to pay for anything that contains DRM. Breaking it is illegal, requires special skills and sometimes it’s very difficult even for experts (Denuvo). If those games were Free Software, any programmer could remove DRM from them and distribute such modified copy. That’s exactly why we need to get rid of proprietary software - so that developers don’t have power over users. I also think that piracy should exist, but it doesn’t solve our issues with software freedom. Nobody should restrict what people can do with their software and their computers.
Oh no, Proton is not just “WINE with extra steps”, Proton is the directX to Vulkan translator, and unlike previous attempts, its so good that some games perform better than on Windows. Not to mention that Valve managed to solve the problems around anti-cheats and all of this works with minimal tweaking. If it were as simple as you say, somebody should’ve already done their own proton before Valve, also, in this case there were no community forks of it, that allows to use its power without the need to launch Steam (https://github.com/GloriousEggroll/wine-ge-custom). And yea, Proton is FOSS. Nice of them, to make a revolution and then just let the people actually have it, don’t you think? If, for example, Take Two were like this, most of modern games could’ve had beautiful procedural character animations powered by Euphoria engine.
The point is that DRM is unethical. I refuse to pay for anything that contains DRM. Breaking it is illegal, requires special skills and sometimes it’s very difficult even for experts…
DRM is unethical indeed, yet, to use them or not is the choice of the dev. Ban modern DRMs today and what you’ll achieve is that companies will try to squirm around and use something even more dirty. Also DRMs are already not the shittiest malware big companies trying to install on your machine, it would be anti-cheat. Why noone talks obout them? There are methods to detect cheaters without installing a rootkit spyware on all the end-users PCs.
…That’s exactly why we need to get rid of proprietary software - so that developers don’t have power over users. I also think that piracy should exist, but it doesn’t solve our issues with software freedom. Nobody should restrict what people can do with their software and their computers.
Lol. Sorry, but the games and DRM are not why. The most important reason to it is that we’re losing proprietary software’s technologies. Technologies that might help advace our modern day of living. Also because what they’re restricting is basically a knoledge, and knowledge shoud be free, not because your poor ass can’t own their games.
And Proton is the example that Valve contributes to FOSS community, unlike literally every other major game company, even CDPR.
Thats not even all of it to why i stand on my point, Steam prices are also the most humane, especially if we mention all this bunch of sales steam is famous for. They were there from the beginning, even though they could’ve done something similar to PSN in terms of pricing policy, given that steam was and still kinda is de-facto monopoly, since other game stores on pc have only the fractions of steam’s profits at the most.
Proton is the directX to Vulkan translator
But WINE does exactly that, it translates different Windows APIs. I’ve been using it to play games (including Steam games) way before Proton was released. It has existed for 30 years now. Proton came 25 years later and according to Wikipedia:
Proton is developed by Valve in cooperation with developers from CodeWeavers.[2] It is a collection of software and libraries combined with a patched version of Wine to improve performance and compatibility with Windows games. Proton is designed for integration into the Steam client as “Steam Play”.[3] It is officially distributed through the client, although third party forks can be manually installed.
You can see for yourself that it uses WINE and other software that WINE also uses, like DXVK: https://github.com/ValveSoftware/Proton
Not to mention that Valve managed to solve the problems around anti-cheats and all of this works with minimal tweaking.
If this is truly their achievement, then it is impressive.
Nice of them, to make a revolution and then just let the people actually have it, don’t you think?
If there is a revolution, then it seems that it’s mostly an achievement of WINE, DXVK and other developers. It is great that Valve contributes to Free Software, though. But that doesn’t change they fact that they also make proprietary software, which is unethical and they are doing it to attract people to their proprietary platform. WINE is licensed under a Copyleft LGPL license, so it’s also possible that Valve had no other choice in this case. Since last I checked even SteamOS was proprietary, there are good reasons to doubt their intentions.
Also DRMs are already not the shittiest malware big companies trying to install on your machine, it would be anti-cheat. Why noone talks obout them? There are methods to detect cheaters without installing a rootkit spyware on all the end-users PCs.
I talk about it, but most people don’t care about stuff like that at all.
Lol. Sorry, but the games and DRM are not why. The most important reason to it is that we’re losing proprietary software’s technologies. Technologies that might help advace our modern day of living. Also because what they’re restricting is basically a knoledge, and knowledge shoud be free, not because your poor ass can’t own their games.
My argument was that people deserve to be able to control their computers and to do that, they need to be able to control the software. Your reason is very important too. You can watch Richard Stallman’s talk for more: https://youtu.be/Ag1AKIl_2GM
And Proton is the example that Valve contributes to FOSS community, unlike literally every other major game company, even CDPR.
That is true.
Thats not even all of it to why i stand on my point, Steam prices are also the most humane, especially if we mention all this bunch of sales steam is famous for. They were there from the beginning, even though they could’ve done something similar to PSN in terms of pricing policy, given that steam was and still kinda is de-facto monopoly, since other game stores on pc have only the fractions of steam’s profits at the most.
What you are saying is true, but before Steam became popular, it was possible to buy used games on physical media for cheap. Now even physical copies of PC games have Valve’s DRM, so I blame Valve for destroying the used games market on PC (on consoles it still exists).
Ironically, Steam is one of the platforms with the most free games, but yes, I hate it with all my heart, since many years ago I bought the game Portal on CD, to realize that it required a Steam account to be able to play it. Furthermore, the same thing happens with the other games they provide, adding that they require downloading the client, which is loaded along with the game, unnecessarily spending resources, apart from the fact that it is slow as hell to open. With GOG more of the same, apart from the fact that it bores you with spam emails, the worst EPIC, which also requires complete personal data for registration. I miss the old days, when you went to the store, bought the game CD and in peace.
I bought The Orange Box, so I had the same problem. All physical copies of games are like this now and Valve is the reason. That killed the used games market on PC. You used to be able to sell your game after you got bored of it, but not anymore.
GOG’s client is proprietary just like Steam and Epic, which is bad, but the difference is that their client is optional. You can get offline installers of games directly from the website, because games there are DRM-free. So that makes GOG better than those platforms. There is also a Free Software alternative client developed by the community - Heroic Games Launcher. It works with Epic Games Store as well.
Another store is itch.io, which sells DRM-free games and their optional client is Free Software. But this store only has indie games.
thanks. I forgot about that. But I’d like to add, that this models kind of feels like “donations with extra steps” to me. i.e. you can get it for free, but you choose to pay the developer even though you have to.
People can get proprietary software for free too, if they don’t mind pirating it. It might be illegal and the risk of getting malware increases, but many people do it anyway. Sometimes it’s even better than the original, because the pirated version won’t have DRM.
So in practice nobody has to pay for any software, any movie, etc. People just choose to do it. In case of Free Software getting it for free is just easier and safer. In theory this might mean that there is less incentive to pay for it, but some projects that I’ve seen seem to be successful. Maybe people don’t know they can get it for free, or it’s too much effort, or they are simply fine with paying.
The best example that comes to mind is Ardour, a FOSS digital audio workstation that charges for binaries. Their FAQ says
If you want the convenience of using our ready-to-run version and/or for support from Ardour developers and experienced users, we ask that you pay something for this.
If you don’t want to pay for a ready-to-run version, then you’ll need to get the source code and build it yourself. We do not provide assistance with this process and particularly on Windows and macOS this can be challenging and take a long time. Also, for Windows, there are no instructions.
It’s a bit mixed in with the “pay for support” model, since you’re basically on your own if you build it yourself. Which probably makes support a lot easier, since there are fewer supported configurations. This seems like a pretty workable model for something as complex as Ardour, but idk how well it would work for simpler projects.
think it also helps that Ardor is used directly by individual users, and its proprietary competitors are often quite expensive. If you’re making something that already has a lot of “free as in beer” competition, this may be harder to pull off.
That is interesting! I had no idea, since it’s packaged in Debian, so I was able to easily install it for free, without even knowing there is a paid version.
There are a lot of Freemium and Paid OpenSource, eg.Proton (Mail, VPN, Drive, etc) the first which came to my mind.
Downvote cause calvin should have been used instead
Id pay taxes to support open source projects.
Those in the EU do with NLNet! (Although arguably not nearly enough)
Yeah def not enough. It’s funny how governments and companies are willing to pay overpriced proprietary software that even comes with no or horrible support, but when they use OSS they hardly contribute and sometimes even get great support via github. But sometimes that’s also the other way around. You pay for expensive license and get shitty support even if it’s OSS. Looking at you Teleport
As European, thatvis not true in my case! (I get funded by them)
Stop using this bigot’s picture to smug up a lukewarm take.
Spicy but true.
Nah, keep using it so we can point and laugh at the moron.
Eight fucking years of fascists’ jeering faces every god-damn day is more than enough, thanks very much.
Fuck Steven Crowder. He does not deserve this meme format.
You sure I can’t change your mind there buddy?
deleted by creator
They don’t always make it easy though. I’m not signing up for Patreon just to donate a one time amount.
What ways do you recommend?
I like Patreon because I trust it and it provides a subscription-like service. And having a way to communicate and engage is really nice.
But the “buy me a coffee” and the direct PayPal, I’m rarely getting any kudos.
You can try librepay
Direct PayPal is my preference, but I know PayPal does dumb things with people’s money sometimes.
This is not for everyone, but I like when they post their crypto wallet address, because then I can send them money anonymously (especially if it’s Monero), it can be a one time donation and I don’t have to create an account on some website.
I know, it’s a real pain sometimes.
winrar wrote this
Confusing free as in freedom with gratis there
They said “free” and I elected to interpret that in the way that allowed me to make a little joke
No joking allowed here. Straight to jail.
Removed by mod
WinRaR is not in prison, so it’s free
If winrar is free, why aren’t you paying for the work they do?
Checkmate, atheist.
It’s not Free Software, because it doesn’t give you the 4 essential freedoms.
WinRar is proprietary
I am interested in paying donations to free and open source software I regularly use and have into my workflow. I will completely ignore your project if you make me deal with license keys. The Grayjay method is ok but would prefer that code and buttons not be dedicated to getting in my way. I hope that the mentality of paying for what you use becomes more common in FOSS culture so that prompts aren’t needed.
That said if your broke, don’t dontate. Take advantage of it being free and when you get a good job again, then consider helping out the developers.
In recent personal experience, I recently changed the motherboard on my Winblows VR gaming PC and It wouldn’t recognize my legit product key anymore. I don’t have patience for DRM shit so I activated it with KMS. Activation keys are a pain in the arse.
I emphasized It’s use for VR gaming just in case someone tries to sell me on the Linux Proton compatibility system. Someday soon steamVR will hopefully have good compatibility and I will give it a go. However I will always at minimum be stuck with windows on a secondary ssd as I have some Oculus games I also like and Oculus+revive will likely never work under Linux.
I should add that I am broke myself so it’s a bit high and mighty of me to say people should donate when I have not done so yet.
I have started by at least supporting game developers on Steam. Mostly indie to medium size studio ones. Again, I can’t stand the AAA game DRM key crap.
I have started by at least supporting game developers on Steam.
Steam puts DRM in games and requires proprietary software (the Steam client), so you should consider not buying there at all. GOG’s client is also proprietary, but its optional and there is a free alternative called Heroic Games Launcher. Itch.io has a libre client (also optional). As far as I know games on those two platforms are DRM-free.
Steam is my dirty little secret when it come to my interest in open source. I believe that Valve will continue to hold it’s long tradition of user first business as a private business with lord Gaben at the helm (yes I know he’s mostly in the background at this point). I know that GOG exists however I really like steam forums, achievements, steam deck integration, steam link streaming and most importantly steamVR. Buying through GOG is going to massively impact my steamVR experience if you can even at all. steamVR compared to Oculus makes steamVR look like a very open platform. I hate Facebook with a passion for a variety of reasons so steamVR it is.
FOSS is a great tool/concept but at this time it doesn’t apply to gaming and I don’t really care to massively inconvenience my gaming experience for a small amount more of open source code. I say this as someone who daily drives a PinePhone, runs a Linux server with ZFS and is looking at a Framework laptop for my next laptop to run Linux on. Windows is still where gaming is at, especially for VR, and I don’t care to try and fight to run close source games on an open source operating system. Seems like a waste of effort to me.
It’s silly to be an absolute open source purist when it comes to Valve anyway. They arguably deserve the money for the amazing ecosystem they have compared to the competition and are one of the biggest contributors to getting GUI frameworks and other Linux systems developed for the Linux based steam deck.
Valve will likely be the party that gets VR working mainstream on Linux for the upcoming Valve Decard standalone headset. You want to talk about the power of open source… well… an affordable VR headset that’s at least mostly open source in the software department that is also good for gaming. Sign me up. It’ll be miles better than what Facebook shits out for it measly 3-4 years of support.
I have an OG Vive that I use as the multiplayer setup for when friends come over and it’s still fully supported. 8 years later.
Valve may not be completely committed to everything open source but until someone out shines them they are the best option for flexibility and longevity.
Also someone need to be paid to develop open source software. This being the beginning of the topic and all. I’m happy for that to be Valve at the moment as they have shown the industry how to be better.
No I don’t work for Valve, I’m just sick of closed restrictive platforms as well as open janky platforms for gaming and hardware with fixed EOL dates. I see Valve as the best balance/compromise.
Sorry for my brains wall of text mode.
I don’t think it’s silly at all to demand that users should have rights and that they should be able to control their computers. Valve makes proprietary software, which takes away user’s freedom, so it is unethical. They could make money in an ethical way if they only wanted. SteamOS is proprietary software too.
I don’t know much about VR, but if Valve makes a headset that doesn’t require proprietary software, that will be great. It should then be used as an example that other companies could follow. But it can’t be used as an excuse for them abusing users in other ways.
Also someone need to be paid to develop open source software. This being the beginning of the topic and all. I’m happy for that to be Valve at the moment as they have shown the industry how to be better.
Certainly, but Valve’s business is mostly focused on proprietary software and DRM. When they do make Free Software, it seems to be for the purpose of attracting people to their proprietary platform.
I don’t doubt that Steam is convenient. I was just saying that we should buy DRM-free games when possible and support alternatives that don’t force us to use proprietary software. More freedom is better and if we don’t try to change something, we will be stuck like this forever and it might even get worse.
I say this as someone who daily drives a PinePhone
Same as me then, nice!
Grayjay is proprietary. Its license doesn’t allow you for example to modify the source code, which is one of the 4 essential freedoms. Programs that don’t give you all of those freedoms are not Free Software.
https://gitlab.futo.org/videostreaming/grayjay/-/blob/master/LICENSE
The cost of switching to an unfamiliar Interface and workflow is high enough, charging money to do it will further increase the barrier to entry.
Paying for open source software sounds good on paper, but if it is required, the software will never accumulate the users to make the development have any meaning.
There has to be a “try it before you buy it” too. Otherwise the permutations of scams are obvious and nobody will fall for that. Idk how you would prove that the software works, without giving an actual copy of the software.
Also, legalities between different countries. You will just not get your money back from “trustworthy nigerian software dev who just needs 50$ to give you some software”.
So no.
Do donate if you can though. If you value the software you use, you will pretty obviously recognize the utility and the cost to you, should it go away.
You could go the Grayjay approach and have it be “paid” software but not stop you from using it without pay, not even anything other than a small buy button which stays until you pay.
That is most likely going to generate less revenue than promoting donations, or a comparable amount at best. WinRAR is the meme example.
From a PR and marketing perspective, if I wanted to maximize my revenue as a single developer I would set up a Patreon or encourage recurring donations through the software by providing bragging rights stuff (merch, insider access, early access to unfinished builds and so on). Single mandatory payments simply reproduce the piracy/license access of commercial software and shaming people into paying without coercion just makes you seem less appealing to people who would donate anyway.
Free Software can be legally distributed (it’s one of the 4 essential freedoms that it gives you). It doesn’t matter if it’s commercial or not, someone can always give you a copy.
There is a game called Mindustry, which is a libre game that is sold one Steam and it seems to be doing fine. This is just one example of a commercial Free Software project.
Grayjay is proprietary software. The license doesn’t allow you to for example edit its source code: https://gitlab.futo.org/videostreaming/grayjay/-/blob/master/LICENSE
So it’s denying you at least one of the 4 essential freedoms.
Ok
Paying for open source software sounds good on paper, but if it is required, the software will never accumulate the users to make the development have any meaning.
Based on what you said, I’m not sure what you mean by “open source”, but Free Software gives you the right to distribute the program (https://www.gnu.org/philosophy/free-sw.en.html#four-freedoms). So anyone who owns a copy can legally share it with you. There are commercial Free Software projects. The game Mindustry is one example.
The game Mindustry is one example.
Yes. And as you can see it has 14k reviews on steam while factorio has 141k reviews.
It’s also a game, so there is no productivity gain or loss associated with it. There is no on call IT support, but you also don’t need any and if something breaks, you lose nothing except the ability to play THIS game for a short while. It’s not a… webserver you run your online shop through where every hour of downtime costs you X hundreds of euros or dollars.
The game was also made by what looks like one guy. It’s not, you know libre office. With hundreds and thousands of contributors and a huge problem of how to distribute the money.
Of course you’re allowed to distribute it. And of course you’re allowed to charge for it. But realistically, nearly nobody would use it.
Yes. And as you can see it has 14k reviews on steam while factorio has 141k reviews.
Yes, but what is this supposed to prove? That proprietary software is more popular? Usually it is. There are many different reasons for that, but one of them is that there is simply more of it.
It’s also a game, so there is no productivity gain or loss associated with it. There is no on call IT support, but you also don’t need any and if something breaks, you lose nothing except the ability to play THIS game for a short while. It’s not a… webserver you run your online shop through where every hour of downtime costs you X hundreds of euros or dollars.
It’s similar to selling a desktop app or a mobile app. I can’t find the source code of AnkiMobile right now, but I’m pretty sure it’s Free Software. If you want an example of a commercial app that people might use to do work, there is Ardour.
It would be nice if I could quit making proprietary software for a living. Maybe some day I will try making some commercial libre software and will see how it goes.
