A Palestinian man who was detained from Shuafat refugee camp in occupied East Jerusalem says he was brutally abused.
  • macniel@feddit.de
    9513·
    1 year ago

    And the world is supporting Israel because? It’s okay because they are Jews and if you say anything contrary you are an anti-semite and or a Nazi?

    • HurlingDurling@lemm.eeEnglish
      513·
      1 year ago

      Speaking of Nazi, the nazis did the exact fucking thing to the jews. Boy how the turn tables

      • novibe@lemmy.mlEnglish
        28·
        1 year ago

        If anyone wrote a fictional story like this, people would call it over the top, silly, far-fetched… reality is fucking dummer than fiction I guess. Not to excuse evil, this is evil, not dumbness.

        • Sterile_Technique@lemmy.worldEnglish
          18·
          1 year ago

          Quote that stuck from a history class I took years ago:

          ‘A key difference between fiction and history is that fiction generally has to make sense or it doesn’t circulate and you aren’t exposed to it. With history, whatever happens happens, and whether or not there’s any rhyme or reason to it doesn’t matter: it becomes history.’

          Also reminds me of this post, which kinda puts into perspective just how fucking weird a lot of history was as it was unfolding. Studying it after the fact we can get a sense of “oh that must have been shocking” but we don’t really get a sense of the absolute “…what the actual fuck…?!” going through the heads of the people at that time:

          https://lemmy.world/pictrs/image/d5a5669e-462a-49a8-9911-fd6cf172a39e.png

          Makes me wonder if the batshit insanity of the circumstances of Trump’s presidency will actually be captured by history, or if it will just get boiled down to “…the US then elected a talkshow host famous for his orange face. It went poorly; and the next president was…”

          • novibe@lemmy.mlEnglish
            3·
            1 year ago

            I mean yeah that’s true. Reality doesn’t have to make sense. It exists and that’s it.

            I would love to see history books 100 years from now, how people would handle all the craziness in the world…

    • Spzi@lemm.eeEnglish
      119·
      1 year ago

      the world is supporting Israel because?

      Because historically, it was a disaster for Jews to not have their own nation, but be a (n often persecuted) minority in other countries.

      Or it still is to this day, but now they have at least one more or less safe retreat on Earth. Yes, many other peoples still don’t have that.

      It’s okay because

      No! Police violence and abuse are NOT okay. Saying this as an atheist, anti-religious, anti-fascist from Germany.

      We can and should condemn the atrocious misbehavior of the police, while still supporting the right of the Israeli nation to exist, which is tied to the basic human right of Jewish people to live.

        • Spzi@lemm.eeEnglish
          55·
          1 year ago

          In the sense that I talked about Israel and no other particular nation, yes.

          Not in the sense which you probably mean though. I even said “many other peoples still don’t have that” (safe retreat), which fits Palestine. Of course Palestinians, being humans, have the same basic human rights which I mentioned.

          I’m not an expert in these things. I felt it would be impossible for me to give a nuanced take on all the important sides of the conflict. So I didn’t even try, but still responded to the questions which were about Israel, likewise addressing Israel specifically.

          I feel your edgy take kind of ignores the essence of my comment. I’d appreciate more balanced responses. Let’s not react to unecessary hate and violence with a comment section which does exactly that.

          • glimse@lemmy.world
            162·
            1 year ago

            It’s not an edgy take. I don’t agree with the “they don’t have a home so it’s ok that we took someone else’s and gave it to them” stance you seem to have.

            The compensation for persecution shouldn’t be allowing the victims to persecute others…which is exactly what’s happening with Israel and the Palestinians.

            The right for the nation to exist has nothing to do with basic human rights, it’s politics and power. You don’t need a government to exist.

            • Spzi@lemm.eeEnglish
              33·
              1 year ago

              Now we’re talking.

              I don’t agree with the “they don’t have a home so it’s ok that we took someone else’s and gave it to them” stance you seem to have.

              Yes, me neither. Glad we could clear this up. Personally, my favorite way forward after WW2 would have been to give them Bavaria, although this would have entailed other problems. Either way, we cannot reverse history and I think it’s important for the Jews to have their own nation. No, that’s not a free pass for things like this article.

              The compensation for persecution shouldn’t be allowing the victims to persecute others

              Obviously agreed. I think I already made that clear. But since we had this misunderstanding, it apparently was not so clear. So thanks for bringing it up, and using a few more words on it.

              • glimse@lemmy.world
                92·
                1 year ago

                Forcibly taking land from a group of people who did nothing wrong to give it to another group of people is not OK, full stop.

                I think it’s important for the Jews to have their own nation.

                It’s not important for us to have our own nation at all because we are not a political party. Are we not able to live with other people?

                Let’s be clear about something: the nation of Israel and the Jewish people are two different things. Anyone who claims that their religion needs its own nation is not doing so in service of the religion or it’s people, they are fighting for their own political power.

                • Spzi@lemm.eeEnglish
                  32·
                  1 year ago

                  Forcibly taking land from a group of people who did nothing wrong to give it to another group of people is not OK, full stop.

                  Yes, obviously.

                  the nation of Israel and the Jewish people are two different things.

                  Yes.

                  Anyone who claims that their religion needs its own nation is not doing so in service of the religion or it’s people, they are fighting for their own political power.

                  I feel that’s a bit too simplistic. ‘Jewish people’ can refer to religion, but also to culture, or descent. Neither of which have to overlap. Most importantly, it does not really matter how the individual identifies themselves to get into trouble for ‘being jewish’, but what others project onto this for their own political power.

                  I’d be happy to cease this point and agree there is no necessity if we have, say, 200 years of no persecution. I agree it should be possible to live in multi-cultural peace without distinct nations, but I also recognize it wasn’t the case in the past. And I’m afraid it still isn’t the case in the present in many places.

      • macniel@feddit.de
        93·
        1 year ago

        We can and should condemn the atrocious misbehavior of the police, while still supporting the right of the Israeli nation to exist, which is tied to the basic human right of Jewish people to live.

        Sure we should condemn the misbehavior of the police which is part of the state (executive), right? So we should condemn the misbehavior of the the isreal state, right?

          • macniel@feddit.de
            63·
            1 year ago

            Yes its great what-aboutism you show. We are talking here about Isreal and the treatment of Palestinians who were there before the isrealites arrived on that land. And they are genociding them just like we (Nazi-Germany) did to them before. But we can’t condemn them for what they are doing now since they were victims of them before.

            This isn’t about some cops doing some abhorrent shit to some people. This is about the continuation of the abhorrent crimes Isreal commit against Palestine!

            • Sneaky Bastard@feddit.de
              11·
              1 year ago

              And they are genociding them just like we (Nazi-Germany) did to them before.

              This is an extremely wrong take. There are truly horrendous crimes happening in this conflict but it is not even close compared to what the nazis did in WW2. “Oversimplifications” like these are just relativizing the holocaust, nothing more.

              • macniel@feddit.de
                31·
                1 year ago

                Okay yeah you are right. Its not as concentrated as Nazi Germany did. Just more slowly.

                • Sneaky Bastard@feddit.de
                  1·
                  1 year ago

                  You completely missed my point here. By making these comparisons you don’t show how cruel the current event is, you just relativize the holocaust itself.

                  Also where would you draw the line? Is the USA performing a holocaust on mexicans? I mean ICE separated kids from their families and locked them up somewhere near the border, “it’s almost like a nazi concentration camp”. While we’re in the US: black communities living in ghettos while being regularly mistreated by police and others? “Sounds like the Warsaw ghetto to me.” And what about LGBTQ people being persecuted, abused and killed by lynchmobs in muslim countries? “That’s basically Kristallnacht!”

                  Do you see what i did there? Are the things i mentioned cruel, awful and just wrong? Yes, of course. Are they somehow comparable to the darkest point in human history where murder on jews and other minorities was industrialized? Absolutely not.

                • Sneaky Bastard@feddit.de
                  11·
                  1 year ago

                  The holocaust began even before the war but you completely missed my point here. By making these comparisons you don’t show how cruel the current event is, you just relativize the holocaust itself.

                  Also where would you draw the line? Is the USA performing a holocaust on mexicans? I mean ICE separated kids from their families and locked them up somewhere near the border, “it’s almost like a nazi concentration camp”. While we’re in the US: black communities living in ghettos while being regularly mistreated by police and others? “Sounds like the Warsaw ghetto to me.” And what about LGBTQ people being persecuted, abused and killed by lynchmobs in muslim countries? “That’s basically Kristallnacht!”

                  Do you see what i did there? Are the things i mentioned cruel, awful and just wrong? Yes, of course. Are they somehow comparable to the darkest point in human history where murder on jews and other minorities was industrialized? Absolutely not.

  • nearhat@lemmy.worldOP
    4310·
    1 year ago

    Edited the post to show the image of Israeli barbarism. This is happening NOW in Palestine. This is happening to innocent people. There is NO EXCUSE. Zionism and Israeli barbarism must end.

    • YaaAsantewaa@lemmy.blahaj.zoneEnglish
      87·
      1 year ago

      It’s been happening for decades and the US still covers it up as always and defends the apartheid. Not even Joe Biden will do anything about it but hey, that’s what you get with 80 year old boomers who probably would sacrifice everyone’s lives to defend that apartheid state

          • TimewornTraveler@lemm.ee
            21·
            1 year ago

            That’s simply idiotic.

            You’ve seriously never heard ACAB before?

            You could become a cop with some training. Would you become a bastard?

            Yes.

            If someone breaks into your home, who you’re gonna call?

            Yes, you call the fucking police, you donkey. just like I can criticize public roads but still drive on them. until a better system is in place, I will use the ones we have.

            Police protect the interests of capital. They make the law by enforcing the law. They are over militarized and over protected, have zero accountability as an institution, and have an inherently racist past that remains racist.

            Fuck all cops, especially the good ones who watch bad shit happen.

            • Dubious_Fart@lemmy.mlEnglish
              1·
              1 year ago

              Last time I tried to call the cops, They took 6 hours to show up, and harassed and threatened me because the one that pulled a gun on me didnt decide to camp out and wait for them to come and arrest them.

              Cops literally have gone to court to fight for the right to not be held accountable for failing to do their job.

              They don’t give a single fuck about you, except for how much they can hurt you…physically and legally, without getting in trouble or getting caught on camera.

              But if you get accused of stealing 25 cents from walmart, they’ll be there inside of 2 minutes with a swat team to bust your ass to the floor so hard you end up with a fractured skull.

  • lemmonade@lemm.ee
    195·
    1 year ago

    statements of the israeli police about this:

    1. the victim was being arrested for drug crimes when this incident happened (not for a violent crime as far as I know).
    2. according to the israeli police, the cameras on the 16 officers where off because of a “technical error”.
    3. the extreme violence applied to the the victim by the 16 armed officers was necessary to restrain him, because he acted violently.
    4. the star-of-david-shaped injury was caused from the shoelaces on an officer’s shoe, which means that at some point the officer’s foot was either pressed hard against the victim’s face, or they kicked the victim’s face.

    source (in hebrew, includes an image of some of the victims wounds and an image of the shoelaces)

    I do find it beliveable that the star of david was unintentional (the actual shape, not the kick to the face), which of course doesn’t make this case any more justified, but it wouldn’t suprise me that much if it was intentional.

    • macniel@feddit.de
      13·
      1 year ago

      according to the israeli police, the cameras on the 16 officers where off because of a “technical error”.

      what a strange coincidence.

    • SomeDude@feddit.de
      142·
      1 year ago

      I do find it beliveable that the star of david was unintentional

      I don’t. Kicking or stepping on someone creates clear, directional injuries, not carefully placed marks with no sign of movement to some side or distortion. Especially of that person is resisting.

      This injury looks to be inflicted on someone who is completely unable to move and by someone who has time and space to carefully place their branding and apply pressure for a while.

    • nearhat@lemmy.worldOP
      94·
      1 year ago

      Thank you for this.

      I’m hoping you can also see through the article.

      This is more propaganda trying to justify the colonial brutality of Zionism.

      -They refer to the victim as “the Palestinian”, dehumanizing him and thus trivializing his injuries.

      -The idea that 16 different officers’ body cameras all fail simultaneously is suspect, to put it mildly.

      -The fact that it took 16 highly trained people to restrain one person is difficult to believe. I will say, I am glad(? Bad word, but I can’t think of the right one) that they didn’t just murder the man and cover it up.

      -This was a planned raid in Occupied East Jerusalem.

      The officers knew who this man was, and where he was.

      -The graphic of boot shoelaces is unbelievable. Fabric laces don’t cause that type of skin damage while keeping the surrounding skin untouched.

  • djquadratic@kbin.social
    1259·
    1 year ago

    Reminder that aljazeera is a Quatari state funded media outlet that tends to sensationalize violence against Palestenians and ignore cases where organizations like Hamas perpetrate violence. this is done to support their agenda of eradicating a Jewish state on a land that is home to the Jewish people and is also a place where many Palestenians call home. Aljazeera at it’s heart is an anti-semetic organization, run by a government that does not care for Jews, and therefore their anti-zionist reporting often ventures into anti-semitism.

    Violence like this is deplorable and should never happen, when it does, should be sanctioned. I do not think this source is unbiased in their reporting and does not make earnest work towards supporting peaceful outcomes in the region.

    Edit - typo