• themeatbridge@lemmy.world
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    2 months ago

    VaultTec being evil wasn’t really part of the first game, but the evil megacorp exploiting (and encouraging) disaster to put profits over human lives, that’s an obvious critique of capitalism. Maybe he didn’t set out to make it a critique of capitalism, but that became part of the foundation in later games.

    • Ledivin@lemmy.world
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      2 months ago

      Eh, does Vault-Tec care about profits or science? Almost everyone died, and the ones that didn’t aren’t paying anymore.

      There are certainly some critiques of capitalism - the vaults being paid at all - but I think you’re overselling it

      • njm1314@lemmy.world
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        2 months ago

        Of course it cared about profits. Profits right then. That’s one of the key components of capitalism. The complete and utter lack of an ability to put long-term profit ahead of short-term profit. I can think of nothing more quintessentially capitalist then destroying the world in an effort to make a lot of money today.

    • Forester@yiffit.net
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      2 months ago

      Except for they don’t care about profits at all.

      The entire stick with the enclave/ valtek is they want to rebuild society from the ground up in an image that they deem to be correct and perfect. And the capitalism was just an end to a means

      That would only be further reinforced by the slides from the X8 research facility in Old world blues if you complete all tasks.

    • YourPrivatHater@ani.social
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      2 months ago

      Yeah basically, but… Capitalism kinda is human nature, so he isn’t wrong, greed was always a thing and will always be.

      But Vault Tech was more the like the science people wanting test subjects and reshaping humanity. Vault Tech could have been run by Joseph Mengele or a similar person who disregarded all ethics for hardcore “science”

  • Hildegarde@lemmy.world
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    2 months ago

    Tim Cain worked on the original fallouts, fallout 1 and 2. He has not been credited in the series since. The fallout series has passed through the hands of many others, who may have included a critique of capitalism as a theme.

    If you’re interested in Tim Cain’s ideas on capitalism, he was the director of the outer worlds, which is far more focused on capitalism much more directly than fallout ever was.

    • Encrypt-Keeper@lemmy.world
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      2 months ago

      I can see where the critique and capitalism is coming from but that side of the games doesn’t really start until Fallout 3, post-Tim Cain

    • mcz@lemmy.world
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      2 months ago

      Or, in his own words

      “I don’t think I have any themes that run in common in all my games (maybe mistrust of power),” said Cain, but “people will interpret my games in all kinds of ways. And that’s ok. Everyone brings their own perspective, and a story can mean different things to different people.”

  • geekwithsoul@lemm.ee
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    2 months ago

    I think what a lot of people missed from the original video is that while it wasn’t the point, the first games did critique capitalism even if that wasn’t the main point. Would highly recommend people check out Tim’s videos directly - each one is usually about only 15 minutes long, but taken together is a masterclass on game dev and story telling.

  • Blackmist@feddit.uk
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    2 months ago

    I think it’s only really the show that highlighted how fucked capitalism is, which is ironic given who made it and who now owns the games.

  • HelixDab2@lemm.ee
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    2 months ago

    FWIW, Ray Bradbury used to argue that Fahrenheit 451 wasn’t about censorship at all, but the dumbing down of society.

    Once work leaves the hands of an author, the author no longer controls the narrative, or how the narrative is interpreted.

    • Summzashi@lemmy.one
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      2 months ago

      Kinda curious where this energy is when an incel calls a video game woke propaganda for having a female main protagonist.

        • Summzashi@lemmy.one
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          2 months ago

          Ok, then replace propaganda with a different word. My point still stands.

          • Cyberspark@sh.itjust.works
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            2 months ago

            Still no, because woke is something specific to the ideal of making people aware of real injustices.

            Your original statement equates to “this is a deliberate attempt to push an agenda”

            Even with replacing propaganda you still end up with “this promotes making people aware of real issues”. Which implies 1 - an acknowledgement of the fact that they’re real issues depicted (which such people usually contest) and 2 - that the author was aware of such issues in their effort to depict these things realistically.

            In the end we all know that what they’re saying is “this shows me something that I don’t like because it doesn’t fit with my vision of the world”

            People can be wrong about intent and about content, but people can’t be wrong about how it affects them and what messages they receive.

          • Uruanna@lemmy.world
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            2 months ago

            You can also replace woke with another word and it is indeed true that this hypothetical game has a message of female empowerment by having a strong female lead yes. Fallout can have an anti-capitalist message whether you’re pro or anti capitalist yourself and use your own word of choice to denigrate or praise the message. The word you chose says more about you than the message.

            What was your point already?

            • Summzashi@lemmy.one
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              2 months ago

              Once work leaves the hands of an author, the author no longer controls the narrative, or how the narrative is interpreted.

              This sentence being upvoted on Lemmy of all places is hypocritical. I don’t fully disagree with it, but people’s interpretation of art can definitely be wrong. People interpreting fallout as anti capitalist could be wrong if the author says so. This is just being upvoted because it suits Lemmy’s political views in general.

              If someone interprets the Mona Lisa as an alien; that’s wrong. Or is it?

              Bit more realistic; why did nobody say “the interpretation isn’t up to the author” when Trump decided to use Rage Against the Machine at his rally? Was that also not wrong because a large group of people interpreted the narrative differently than the author? Ofcourse they were wrong.

              • Uruanna@lemmy.world
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                2 months ago

                There’s giving a different importance to something that is, in fact, present in the art piece because it touches you more importantly than it did the author, and then there’s making shit up whole cloth. But like I said, the words you chose, and also the things you chose to defend, say more about you than the art

                • Summzashi@lemmy.one
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                  2 months ago

                  …and what is that exactly? I’m just disagreeing with the quote in my last post. What are you on about?

  • teft@lemmy.world
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    2 months ago

    Fallout is about me, my dog, and my walking tank armor. Who cares about capitalism when i have ghouls and super mutants to hunt?

    • dustyData@lemmy.world
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      2 months ago

      He made another game which is a direct criticism of capitalism. The dude is talking about the first few Fallout games, he hasn’t worked on Fallout since Bethesda bought the IP.

        • dustyData@lemmy.world
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          2 months ago

          I mean, sure, it might be a dumb argument to make, but it doesn’t mean that wasn’t what he intended it to be about. The author is free to have an intention and interpretation of the work that is radically different from the audience’s perception. It happens with all art forms.

        • kemsat@lemmy.world
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          2 months ago

          It kind of is. When people come into conflict, there’s 3 main outcomes: one side wins, both sides agree to disagree, or both sides disagree to disagree. The disagree to disagree option is what war is. Given enough people interacting with each other, war is an inevitable outcome of human nature.

        • Encrypt-Keeper@lemmy.world
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          2 months ago

          Well I tell you what, we can circle back to your argument the very moment war stops being a inevitable part of human nature.